Korg Minilogue

[stillshaded]

just realized I'm currently working on a song that's primary feature is 5 note chords... derp

[lfm]

Seems they had a good day creating specs for that - seems physical knobs for almost everything. Just like Nord Lead has. My KingKorg is really fun to work with, but still too many parameters hidden in menues.

If you don't have one, get an iPad. Even an old cheap one will do and load up Patch Morpher onto it with the KingKORG add on. Makes the KingKORG super fun to work with.

Thanks, I got KK because it was pretty good on knobs after all, tired of mouse clicking making presets - just not quite as good as NL in user friendlyness. But some Shift buttonpushes gets you in the menu range you need to be in KK. Also find KK shine in number of filters, combination of oscillators and effects section.

Modulation routing options to find unusuall sounds and make timbre velocity sensitive - is excellent in both. KK in the sources and destinations for modulation . And NL shines in the way every knob can be made velocity sensitive by just turning it with Assign active - every knob on the panel if 27 of them. These are the parts that make every preset an instrument by itself - expressive and interesting sound.

Will be interesting to see what Minilogue provide in this sense.


KK could do with a firmware update - and they could make the categories buttons work like in Blofeld - so when push a category button over and over, or step next/previous in category - actually find any preset assigned that category, not just the next by number.

But there is a solution to get KK categories right, you can in sysex dump change some bytes where each category start, so you have room for each as you find useful - and save them in those positions. This setting where each category start could also be in firmware update as I see it.

Since Prophet 6 can sell at $3000 or so, this would be fabulous at $500 if rumour is true.
My first synth a CZ1000 had four voices - and never felt that was major loss at the time.
The VA versions of Prophet(8,12 etc) are half price of 6.

The Prophet 08 and 12 aren't VA. The 8 is DCO based analog (though it's envelopes are generated digitally) and the 12 is a hybrid digital osc/osc effects and analog filter architecture.

OK, trying to learn exactly what most mean by VA.
So one part of essential parts like VCA, VCF or VCO exist - it's not a VA?
But all DCA, DCF and DCO - it's VA.

For me it's been more like if one DCA, DCF or DCO - it's VA.

[david.beholder]

Mono/poly.... and as the old saying goes, if it looks to good to be true, it usually is.

In your spelling it's completely different saying

[Shy]

Heh, regarding "hybrid".. Waldorf Q+ was released many years before stuff like Prophet 12, and Waldorf calls it a virtual analog synth, because that's obviously what it is. The addition of analog filters and amplifiers didn't suddenly turn it into a "hybrid and therefore not virtual analog synth". It's all hilarious semantics. Dave wouldn't dare to mention that Prophet 12 has "virtual analog" or "analog modeled" features, although it obviously does, because that just doesn't sound "vintage" enough, so it's only marketed as a "hybrid" digital/analog synth, even though the only analog thing about it is filters and amplifiers. Then, users go on saying it's "not virtual analog", or "it also has other stuff like wavetables, so it's not virtual analog". So I guess Virus TI and Nord Wave and Lead 4 have nothing to do with "virtual analog" either.

There's hardly any "fully analog" synth nowadays (outside of modulars), and some synths aren't "fully digital" either, so everyone is free to call them whatever they want, and it's just a question of whether the synth is "analog enough" or "digital enough" to be associated with certain recognizable and expected functional and tonal characteristics influenced by its architecture. For example, I would say that just having VCOs and VCFs (with digital envelopes, LFOs, etc.) is likely to be enough for a synth like minilogue to be associable with "analog synth" sound and control/functionality characteristics, while having digital oscillators and VCFs is likely not to be enough for any synth from any known manufacturer to be associable enough with those characteristics, but is enough to be associable with known "virtual analog" characteristics, for example, as well as "hybrid digital/analog" characteristics (going way back to PPG Wave, OSCar and stuff). And anyone may have other ideas and say that that's totally subjective and have other criterions for their definitions. Sounds made with synths will always eventually speak for themselves, in any case, so I believe that debates and facts hidden from common users will never have as much effect as that.

[duncanm]

[eXode]

OK, trying to learn exactly what most mean by VA.
So one part of essential parts like VCA, VCF or VCO exist - it's not a VA?
But all DCA, DCF and DCO - it's VA.

For me it's been more like if one DCA, DCF or DCO - it's VA.

No, VA is Virtual Analog, basically software in a box, think Access Virus, Novation Nova, etc. that is not the case with a DCO based synth.

Also, the commonly used nomenclature for a synth that have digital oscillators but analog filter and amp is a hybrid synthesizer. Examples of hybrid synthesizers would be i.e. PPG Wave, Waldorf Wave/Microwave (regardless of what _they_ say), KORG DW8000, Prophet VS, Prophet 12, Pro-2, Kawai K3, ESQ1/SQ80, etc.

Regarding the whole DCO/VCO discussion it's merely a way of defining the way the component is controlled (from an analog or digital source).

A DCO still generates an analog waveform. It recieves a digital clock, the clock tells the capacitor in the oscillator when to fire (this results in the pitch, simplified).

So a synth like the Prophet 08 has an all analog audio path and is commonly referred to as an analog synth (but with DCO's if you need to make the distinction from VCO's).

Again I'm talking about nomenclature that is commonly used by a great amount of people, and not individual derivations.

[lfm]

Regarding the whole DCO/VCO discussion it's merely a question of defining the way the component is controlled (from an analog or digital source).

A DCO generates an analog waveform. It recieves a digital clock, the clock tells the capacitor in the oscillator when to fire (this results in the pitch).

So a synth like the Prophet 08 has an all analog audio path and is commonly referred to as an analog synth.

If everything is analog in P8, what makes the price difference to P6?
Isn't P6 VCO as well, or something making it even more analog?

So signal path AFTER oscillator is deciding if analog?

It seems fake to me if oscillators are not freerunning analog ones and call it analog synth. You will not get the phase differences between oscillators in the same way. Most emulate this by the unison stuff making it phatter.

But guessing something about not having CV voltage controlled oscillator in any modern synth, making oscillators somewhat synced to digital clocks generated from which key is pressed - we would have no analog synths.

Are the MS20, Arp Odyssey and Prophet 6 the only true analog produced today?
As I recall from Korg launch party 2015 NAMM it was true VCO in those.

[eXode]

If everything is analog in P8, what makes the price difference to P6?
Isn't P6 VCO as well, or something making it even more analog?

Cost of components is the main difference. The P8 uses a specialized "Synth on a chip" that is cheap to produce and requires less components. The P6 uses discrete componens, everything is custom made circuits, from oscillators, to filters and amplifiers.

So signal path AFTER oscillator is deciding if analog?

No, for it to be completely analog you need DCO's or VCO's as oscillators, then analog filter and amplifier.

If you have digital oscillators and then analog signal path then it's hybrid.

It seems fake to me if oscillators are not freerunning analog ones and call it analog synth. You will not get the phase differences between oscillators in the same way. Most emulate this by the unison stuff making it phatter.

But guessing something about not having CV voltage controlled oscillator in any modern synth, making oscillators somewhat synced to digital clocks generated from which key is pressed - we would have no analog synths.

Are the MS20, Arp Odyssey and Prophet 6 the only true analog produced today?
As I recall from Korg launch party 2015 NAMM it was true VCO in those.

If you don't fully understand it, how can you say that it's fake?

It's not true anyway because the DCO's of today use different digital clocks that are free running so DCO's today like in Dave Smith Prophet 08 are free running in phase like any analog oscillator, the difference from a VCO is that a DCO is completely accurate in tuning.

[lfm]

So signal path AFTER oscillator is deciding if analog?

No, for it to be completely analog you need DCO's or VCO's as oscillators, then analog filter and amplifier.

Well, that was pretty much what I said - signal path AFTER oscillator.

What is there as oscillator - DCO/VCO and wavetable, or?

Your point would be that wavetable based synths can never be analog - even with analog signal path?
Are they VA?

[eXode]

What is there as oscillator - DCO/VCO and wavetable, or?

Your point would be that wavetable based synths can never be analog - even with analog signal path?
Are they VA?

There is DCO/VCO, wavetable/digital waveform and DSP generated.

On a VA the whole signal is digital (i.e. hardware running software).

Wavetable/digital waveform and DSP generated can at most be hybrid (see my earlier post on examples of hybrids) if it has analog filter and amp.

Example: Waldorf Wave/Microwave 1 is hybrid because it has analog filters and amplifiers. Waldorf Microwave 2/XT is digital/VA because everything is DSP generated (there are no analog filters or amplifiers).

[Shy]

So a synth like the Prophet 08 has an all analog audio path

Everything that controls the waveform generators (so-called "oscillators") and filters in that "analog signal path" is digital, including the digital signals which are the main thing that determines how the oscillating analog waveforms look/sound at all, and the digital low frequency oscillator waveforms, and the digital envelope waveforms, and other digital signals. The "oscillators" are digital, meaning the oscillation process itself is calculated digitally, converted using DAC and goes to a waveform generator, which creates an analog waveform based on the digitally-generated and converted oscillator signal it receives. That's basically what the "DCO" is. So it's no surprise that functionally and audibly, with stuff other than basic unmodulated waveforms, synths with DCOs and synths with VCOs can differ greatly. When someone has no idea why his synth that uses DCOs sounds way different than a synth with VCOs that has a similar architecture, it's because they don't realize just how vastly different they really are.

[whyterabbyt]

Your point would be that wavetable based synths can never be analog - even with analog signal path?

of course they can, you just have to store your wavetables on BBDs, vinyl or tape. Havent you seen the new Technics 1200 eurorack module?


Wait. That's some idea. f**k me, you could make a small fortune off teh hipsters with a eurorack module that played vinyl.

[tehlord]

Your point would be that wavetable based synths can never be analog - even with analog signal path?

of course they can, you just have to store your wavetables on BBDs, vinyl or tape. Havent you seen the new Technics 1200 eurorack module?


Wait. That's some idea. f**k me, you could make a small fortune off teh hipsters with a eurorack module that played vinyl.

8 track. You want it to play 8 track.

[whyterabbyt]

Your point would be that wavetable based synths can never be analog - even with analog signal path?

of course they can, you just have to store your wavetables on BBDs, vinyl or tape. Havent you seen the new Technics 1200 eurorack module?


Wait. That's some idea. f**k me, you could make a small fortune off teh hipsters with a eurorack module that played vinyl.

8 track. You want it to play 8 track.

that comes next, then wax cylinders and optigan platters.

couple of mill on kickstarter, easy.

[tehlord]

8 x 8 tracks for a Mellotron inspired module.

Y'see you sell the module cheap, and then bend them over for the cartridges.