KVR Audio

MOK19 · Post by **MOK19** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:29 pm

Hey all.
I've been using Cubase 4 since it's release in 2006, so I suppose it's safe to say I'm comfortable and experienced with the ins and outs of Cubase(or at least, an old version).
But I recently took a break from music, and tried to reinstall C4 on a new desktop with Windows 10 - That's a no-go.

Rather than backpedaling, I'm actually comfortable-ish with leaving my old software and projects behind, and starting fresh. I'd like to look at changing up my DAW.

Previously, possibly my biggest weakness as a musician is that I have trouble with arranging. Weird mental block I've got, where stringing together the big-picture of a song is the hard part for me. So I'd like to know if:

A) Are there any DAW's that are particularly good with facilitating arranging, or that change-up the arrangement process to push people in new directions?

B) Besides the above detail, is there a standout DAW for early 2016 to check out?

Thanks all!

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:41 pm

From your description i guess the obvious suggestion would be Ableton Live, as it's made for live work, so i guess arranging in it should be pretty straight forward. If you look for a Cubase-ish experience, many ex-Cubase users like Studio One, because it's similar in workflow.

Googly Smythe · Post by **Googly Smythe** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:15 pm

I've heard that FL Studio is the premier arranging DAW.
But I think all DAWs have an arranging function of some sort. Cubase 8.x has (and being a Cubase user myself that would be my recommendation).

BDeep · Post by **BDeep** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:23 pm

Well, yeah, they all arrange

I think the problem of arranging won't be solved by a tool though. I was/am in the same spot myself, and I eventually switched from Logic to Live. Primarily because it can take the focus away from arranging, you just create clips, stop and start them and see which combinations work. It sparked a whole lot of creativity. That in return actually made me want to go to the arrange part of Live and start working on the arrangement, or you can play the clips as you go and record that into the arrangement.
Ymmv

garryknight · Post by **garryknight** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:59 pm

Studio One's Arranger lets you name and then drag and drop entire sections of your song. It also has multiple scratch pads (as many as your system can handle) into which (and from which) you can drag single or multiple events, so you can try out ideas in scratchpads then drag them onto the timeline to create the various parts of your piece, then use the Arranger track to drag those parts into any order you like.

Rajah · Post by **Rajah** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:05 pm

MOK19 wrote:Hey all.
I've been using Cubase 4 since it's release in 2006, so I suppose it's safe to say I'm comfortable and experienced with the ins and outs of Cubase(or at least, an old version).
But I recently took a break from music, and tried to reinstall C4 on a new desktop with Windows 10 - That's a no-go.

Rather than backpedaling, I'm actually comfortable-ish with leaving my old software and projects behind, and starting fresh. I'd like to look at changing up my DAW.

Previously, possibly my biggest weakness as a musician is that I have trouble with arranging. Weird mental block I've got, where stringing together the big-picture of a song is the hard part for me. So I'd like to know if:

A) Are there any DAW's that are particularly good with facilitating arranging, or that change-up the arrangement process to push people in new directions?

B) Besides the above detail, is there a standout DAW for early 2016 to check out?

Thanks all!

Seems like all the exciting developments are taking place in the IOS (Tablet) world...
Got my eyes on this gem.. Hopefully they will bring it as a VSTi like NI Maschine..

Edit... BTW.. There are much more to these features I have seen on other videos...

Rajah · Post by **Rajah** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:13 pm

Cyoon · Post by **Cyoon** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:13 pm

Bitwig has both, a nice arranger like Cubase and a clip launcher like Ableton live. Also it pushes you into new directions, while being able to split screen the arranger and the launcher. Also you got these nice return to arrangement buttons when playing a clip, so you can have an actual track structure and break it up with a clip for improvisation or variation, and when you are finished just return that single clip to arrangement and focus on something else..quite neat imo

Regnas · Post by **Regnas** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:00 pm

Simple answer: FL Studio!
This is a true music making machine... Bitwig is #2...

JamesJulius · Post by **JamesJulius** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:21 am

I'd say Ableton, but everyone's going to have their two cents! Download a couple of demos and try them out, it'll be fun.

MOK19 · Post by **MOK19** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:22 am

Thanks for the replies fellas. I'm already trying demos, but that's a time intensive process. I'm starting out with the Bitwig demo.

But more opinions are helpful, as demoing everything is... not entirely practical. So I love hearing suggestions, with the caveat that it's only useful if you can qualify why a particular DAW is your choice(like Suloo, chk071 and garryknight did above - thank you!).

Side note, per Rajah's mention -
As for iOS, actually I've spent a lot of time on that lately, trying to help out a friend's band situation. The tablet scene is neat, and has a lot of potential, but at present it's mostly all strictly inferior in every way to what's already developed for PC(mobility aside). Unfortunately.

After wrestling with issue after issue after issue, a new one every day, for months, I doubt I'll ever be tempted to use an ipad for personal music use. Better to use a tiny laptop and a good midi controller, especially for live use. Tapping on a tablet on a live stage, or even simply LOOKING AT a tablet display when on stage is, surprisingly, not at all practical. You have to try it out to see how damned problematic it is. And there's more issues beyond that. Though, the situation could partly improve with time...
But I digress.

Boone777 · Post by **Boone777** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:22 am

BDeep wrote:Well, yeah, they all arrange I think the problem of arranging won't be solved by a tool though. I was/am in the same spot myself, and I eventually switched from Logic to Live. Primarily because it can take the focus away from arranging, you just create clips, stop and start them and see which combinations work. It sparked a whole lot of creativity. That in return actually made me want to go to the arrange part of Live and start working on the arrangement, or you can play the clips as you go and record that into the arrangement.
Ymmv

+1000 about the DAW not solving arranging problem !
Arranging per say is a mixing skillset alone and it can be developped through various techniques, compos trial and error listening to the best out there and let the song guide you through what it needs. I highly recommend this book: http://www.dennisdesantis.com/
Its just one exemple but very actual easy to read and to put in action for every daw although EM oriented.

FL Studio, LIVE and Bitwig are very oriented towards electronic music/looping and LIVE and Bitwig both specialize in live performance. Most DAWs these days a function to create regions(chorus, bridge, verse) allowing mix and match of those regions.

I suggest Reaper, free for 2 months cheap (60$) the fastest and extremelly versatile and powerfull.

dune_rave · Post by **dune_rave** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:44 am

You know Cubase, so why don't you upgrade to a newer Cubase?
Every DAW has some silly things, so you won't find a perfect anyway.
I suggest keep using what you already know.

TheNickC · Post by **TheNickC** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:41 am

dune_rave wrote:You know Cubase, so why don't you upgrade to a newer Cubase?
Every DAW has some silly things, so you won't find a perfect anyway.
I suggest keep using what you already know.

Truth. All DAWs are a bit dysfunctional from what I've seen, unless you have serious "this thing is actually broken" kind of problems you're most likely better off sticking with what you know.

I've been through this with FL numerous times over the past 5 years almost, it'll introduce some irksome thing like piano roll auto-zooming or various ways the keyboard shortcuts have been butchered. I'll demo a bunch of other DAWs occasionally but I never find anything better. When you use a program for years you get used to what it does well, plus you probably picked it over others in the first place for a reason.

scintillator · Post by **scintillator** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:15 am

Most of these suggestions aren't exactly cheap... An upgrade would be cheaper. AND, Cubase is the best.

Then again, why wouldn't C4 work on W10? Maybe you're doing something wrong? Or, just find a dirt cheap W7.

Your choice!

Time to switch DAW?