Why Don't More People Share Project Files?

[harryupbabble]

I noticed that there is a Mix Challenge forum here at KVR but I couldn't find any project files there. And I thought "If people are posting their songs at the KVR Music Cafe then would they also post their projects of those songs?". REAPER projects preferred. We don't all have Cubase and other expensive DAWs.

It seems to me that if more people share their song projects then all types (beginners and pros) can remix other people's songs and beginners can learn what plugins are being used most often and then they can save up to buy those "effective, goto plugins". Or maybe freewares are being used? We don't know until we see those projects. And not only that... mixing techniques can be learned too and faster than reading books about mixing? Hands on.

Someone in the know could make a tutorial on how to upload projects to free file hosting sites.

Is this "projects sharing" idea too socialist or whatever whatchamacallit and will cause more oversaturation or is this just a very good way to educate selflessly? Look at Buzz, an ancient DAW, okay Tracker more than DAW... people shared their many many many Buzz projects and nothing bad happened, it seems. But maybe something good happened or still happening. Who knows? It's just that Buzz seem to be dead and REAPER is not. There is the Music Theory forum so why not the Projects Share forum too? Knowledge is power. Make everyone powerful. No?

[NystagmusE]

I'm not against music collaborations. I think the main setback is that projects and stems take up tons of space and are difficult to share because of upload / download times and limited ISP bandwidth. Not everyone has the same resources to make it smoothly possible.

But again, I'm not against the idea. I hope you find what you're looking for.

[Googly Smythe]

... We don't all have Cubase and other expensive DAWs...

We don't all have Reaper and other cheap DAWS.
And therein lies the rub.

[harryupbabble]

I think the main setback is that projects and stems take up tons of space and are difficult to share because of upload / download times and limited ISP bandwidth.

If I understand correctly, stems are just midi tracks rendered to audio. We could download those projects that only have midi tracks and then we could do the "stemizing" ourselves after?

Aren't stemless REAPER projects very small in terms of file size... one MB thereabouts?

And if some projects uses samples (drum samples for a drum sequencer, for example), the uploader could just remove those samples to make the project file smaller but leave the midi track(s) intact? We can substitute our own drum samples or whatever, after. Or maybe the uploader can say, for example, "I downloaded these drum samples from this site". Or maybe I/we already have those samples.

But I guess if all the tracks of the project is done live (vocals, guitar solo, etc) then yup the actual project file might be as big as one GB. But my guess is that bandwidth might not be a problem for those folks. I am willing to spend however many hours to download those project files.

[harryupbabble]

We don't all have Reaper and other cheap DAWS.
And therein lies the rub.

True, but uploaded projects doesn't just have to be for REAPER. Surely, Cubase users might want to upload their projects for downloaders who use Cubase? Upload projects for all DAWs.

It would be good to find out just how many music-makers are actually using REAPER or Cubase or whatever. We can maybe get a rough idea.. if people start sharing their project files, that is.

It seems project files might speak louder than polls... what DAWs and plugins music-makers are "actually" using.

[jancivil]

I think the main setback is that projects and stems take up tons of space and ... bandwidth.

If I understand correctly, stems are just midi tracks rendered to audio. We could download those projects that only have midi tracks and then we could do the "stemizing" ourselves after?

Aren't stemless REAPER projects very small in terms of file size... one MB thereabouts?

And if some projects uses samples (drum samples for a drum sequencer, for example), the uploader could just remove those samples to make the project file smaller but leave the midi track(s) intact? We can substitute our own drum samples or whatever, after. Or maybe the uploader can say, for example, "I downloaded these drum samples from this site". Or maybe I/we already have those samples.

I think my workflow is an apt illustration of some problems with a DAW project file traveling. As it's on the extreme end of the continuum.

1) I don't use Reaper.
2) I don't usually make stems. I do commit certain things to audio in an initial stage of the project in entirety, but this is a separate Cubase project file (.cpr). The reasons for this are tracks which are problematic in playback. One type of issue is super long envelopes (in my own patches) where, at many spots I play back from behave in a way they do not do in the full playback. They're freaking out a lot of the time. So, even if there would be someone that wanted to know how I did it, it's just a can of worms no one would want opened.

A really big .cpr with me is like 2MB. But this is no indication of what it takes, because there will be at most a couple instances of instruments and maybe 1 or 2 FX in Cubase; while the attendent VE Pro projects could be 10,000x that.

This takes us to the most salient issue for this notion of sharing: you mention drums. Drums are not all the same. I cannot expect a different drum to be a replacement immediately, if at all. I suppose with professional vendors of drum MIDI there will be certain assumptions as to normal. I actually have zero experience with it. But, once some time ago I wanted to do my own arrangement of another KVR person's track. He supplied me with the MIDI. It was totally unfeasible for me to make his MIDI work with my instruments on my DAW. Wait, I've tried this twice (and the other time was completely different musically than this KVR share). No es possible. Because the instruments are just that different. SO, if your approach and the other person's approach and actualities are really uniform, it may be worth pursuing. I think the only thing to do is stems, tho.

[2ZrgE]

I noticed that there is a Mix Challenge forum here at KVR but I couldn't find any project files there. And I thought "If people are posting their songs at the KVR Music Cafe then would they also post their projects of those songs?". REAPER projects preferred. We don't all have Cubase and other expensive DAWs.

It seems to me that if more people share their song projects then all types (beginners and pros) can remix other people's songs and beginners can learn what plugins are being used most often and then they can save up to buy those "effective, goto plugins". Or maybe freewares are being used? We don't know until we see those projects. And not only that... mixing techniques can be learned too and faster than reading books about mixing? Hands on.

Someone in the know could make a tutorial on how to upload projects to free file hosting sites.

Is this "projects sharing" idea too socialist or whatever whatchamacallit and will cause more oversaturation or is this just a very good way to educate selflessly? Look at Buzz, an ancient DAW, okay Tracker more than DAW... people shared their many many many Buzz projects and nothing bad happened, it seems. But maybe something good happened or still happening. Who knows? It's just that Buzz seem to be dead and REAPER is not. There is the Music Theory forum so why not the Projects Share forum too? Knowledge is power. Make everyone powerful. No?

Project sharing also makes it easier for others to steal your ideas. Just saying...

[SuitcaseOfLizards]

#1: As said above, not a ton of folks I trust.
#2: Not too many ambient composers use Tracktion.
#3: I use such a weird collection of instruments, few others have them all.
#4: Apropos of #3, downloading a pile of 24/96 stereo tracks every change is painful.

Doesn't mean I wouldn't do it.. just sets the bar higher for me.

[trimph1]

Who would want to work on my sonic disasters?!?

[pljones]

OhmStudio exists to make it easier. Many users don't use it as their primary DAW, just for collaborations, exchanging ideas and just "working on stuff together". It does the "stem-izing" automatically, to cut down on the problem of everyone having a different library of VSTs. So whilst I may have Native Instruments Abbey Road Vintage Drums Ebony kit for my brush kit, you don't have to - we both hear the same thing. Of course, you can choose to replace it with another kit and it'll update the stem so I now hear something different...

The number of individual combinations of ( DAW x VSTi x VST ) makes life challenging for collaborations, as has been said. I think that's the main issue. Control of your own destiny is probably an issue for some people, too. Not having any ideas to share is my main killer .

Why is this off topic?

[harryupbabble]

Project sharing also makes it easier for others to steal your ideas. Just saying...

This might be a good thing. For example, I read articles on Jimmy Page and they say that early on Jimmy was a session player and in effect Jimmy was being exposed to other people's projects by having have to play and study his part as a session player. And what is the end result of this exposure to variety of music to the young Jimmy? The mighty Led Zeppelin. Sure, Led Zeppelin is accused of ripping off Blues artists but really, Led Zeppelin did something different and something beyond those Blues artists.

This project sharing idea might be super-good for the future of music making and therefore the music scene? People might steal your ideas but that is the not the same as stealing your song. They might do something so different with your ideas.

Also, you can sue blatant "note-for-note" thieves if you can prove that your song existed before anyone's version did? But aren't most creative music-makers mantra this: "I shall not sound anything like anybody else". I listen to David Bowie's music and I think he achieved this mantra even though he might have used little pieces of other people's ideas here and there.

Really, YOU and everybody might benefit from looking at other people's ideas? Besides, if certain people wanted to steal your ideas they might not need your projects to do it. They could just do it by listening to your songs. They could slow the song tempo and find the exact notes you used. And people with perfect pitch could do it even easier. I think 90 percent of the greats, perfect pitch or not, did that... Jimmy Page, Eddie Van Halen, The Beatles, Beethoven (slowing the tempo might not be his exact method due to lack of digital technology), et cetera.

[harryupbabble]

#2: Not too many ambient composers use Tracktion.
#3: I use such a weird collection of instruments, few others have them all.

#2 I think there is a version of Tracktion that is free? People might download that version just to check out your project. People not into ambient music, if one day they are bored and decides to download your project file, might get exposed to that genre and find it interesting.

#3 I myself, for example, would use a freeware plugin as a substitute if the projects creator used a payware plugin. I read somewhere that the freeware plugins made by VoS (Variety of Sound) could do what a lot of expensive plugins does. A lot of other freeware plugins by other developers might do those payware plugin's jobs as well. Heck, maybe people might not even stick to what the plugin in the creator's project is supposed to do. They might use a chorus plugin instead of a distortion plugin. This might totally change the sound of the original project and that might be fun and interesting?

I think examining other people's projects is more driven and worthwhile compared to just listening to other people's songs.

[harryupbabble]

Who would want to work on my sonic disasters?!?

I might not work on your "sonic disaster" project but I would download it just to check it out. Something in that project might be useful. Something useless to others might be useful to others. And if it is totally useless to me, hahaha, so what? It's not like I'm Paul MacCartney. Just a nobody here.

[harryupbabble]

OhmStudio exists to make it easier. Many users don't use it as their primary DAW, just for collaborations, exchanging ideas and just "working on stuff together". It does the "stem-izing" automatically, to cut down on the problem of everyone having a different library of VSTs. So whilst I may have Native Instruments Abbey Road Vintage Drums Ebony kit for my brush kit, you don't have to - we both hear the same thing. Of course, you can choose to replace it with another kit and it'll update the stem so I now hear something different...

The number of individual combinations of ( DAW x VSTi x VST ) makes life challenging for collaborations, as has been said. I think that's the main issue. Control of your own destiny is probably an issue for some people, too. Not having any ideas to share is my main killer .

Why is this off topic?

I Googled "OhmStudio" and clicked the first result and Firefox gives this notice "This Connection is Untrusted". It sounds like a great software. Is it free? I don't have PayPal and probably don't qualify to have an account and have never bought anything off of the internet.

You don't have any ideas? What about the chains of plugins you decide to use? That qualifies as "idea". Lots of ideas could be in there.

I'm not sure where the topic of "Projects Sharing" should go. Any suggestion? How do I move it to there?

[harryupbabble]

1) I don't use Reaper.

You use Cubase and VE Pro. That might still be okay because project files could be uploaded and in some cases the files could stay there for a while, maybe even years, and by that time the not so rich folks who didn't have Cubase or VE Pro might have them.

I myself would download project files as soon as possible and just store them somewhere in my computer drive or maybe even to DVD and load them when/if I eventually can afford Cubase and VE Pro and all the giants of DAWs if possible.

CPR files might load in the Demo versions of Cubase? Not sure if VE Pro has demo versions. Googling now. Just occurred to me to check. Gracias Jan.