Considering switching from Fl studio to Ableton

[digimoz]

I know it's been asked a million times, but I haven't found any anwsers relating exactly to my problems, so I feel I have to make a post about it as I've been dwelling on this for so long now..

I've been producing mainly in FL studio and know it very well.
The reason I'm considering switching to Ableton is as follows:

I find Fl studio to be exellent when working on smaller to medium projects. Laying down an idea is incredibly fast!
However, when working with large projects the speed comes to a halt. I find that it becomes very problematic to keep it organized in Fl studio when the project reaches a certain size.
It almost feels like the daw is fighting against me. Despite my best attempts to keep it organized by painstakingly grouping, naming and coloring everything it still just looks like a blur eventually.
When you have 100+ tracks and automation everywhere it's impossible to see the track structure.
To make it worse, there's no folder track option in Fl so I can't hide away stuff in folders like in most other daws. It's all there at the same time, so naturally it get's worse the larger the project becomes, it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

here's my main problems when working with large projects in FL Studio:

- No way to move groups of tracks (containing clips and automation) into folders and sub folders in the arrange window.

- Automation can't be hidden, and each one take up a whole track so all automation for everything is showing all the time, making it hard to see the track structure, unless I place clips on top of each other, something that causes problems on it's own..

- Constantly having to rename and color clips, channel rack and mixer items whenever you replace a synth or whatever. Ther'es no link between them that automate this, so you can end up having 3 different names for the same thing, one in the mixer, one in the channel rack and one in the playlist (arrange view). While in other daws this is usually all done automatically to keep it organized. If you change the name in the mixer it changes in the track as well. In Fl you have to do this manually.

- Only global swing. I can apply swing using templates in the piano roll, but no swing pr. track, so swing amount for any given track can't be automated.

- only 104 mixer tracks available

- Annoying having to enter the VST wrapper for every single synth to manually turn on "allow threaded processing" as it's off by Default even though "generator multithreading" is on in global options. If I don't FL will just use one of my 6 cpu cores, causing overloads.


So there you have it. As you can see, my main problems are basically due to the lack of ways to organize in Fl. There is a "group with above" function in the playlist, but it can't compare to folder tracks in other daws.

I've recently also been using studio one 3 and find that quite good. The organization there is so much better than Fl. I have no problems keeping large projects organized in there.

However, I primarily make loop based music so I find it easier to work with clips. Fl studio is faster for my kind of production, also I like the flexibility of the Fl studio piano roll, with it's ability to edit paning etc directly in the piano roll. I produce much faster in FL studio overall.

I've been eyeballig Ableton for some time now. It seems it's the closest thing to FL studio with regard to workflow and clips. It seems like my problems with regard to organization won't be such a problem in there?

I'd like to hear from people who have used FL studio and then moved to Ableton. Or if there's anyone who moved from Ableton to FL studio I'd really like to hear from you as well and why you switched, and how that's working out for you.
Has anyone else had these problems with regard to organization in FL?

Switching daws is a huge thing. It takes allot of time and it will set me back to start. So I would appreciate some advice.

I'm very happy with FL studio overall I work fast in it and I know it very well. It has some great tools. I love the piano roll, and the new mixer is great. The ability to route anything to anything is great. I like many of the built in plugins (slicex, grossbeat etc) and the overall feel of the DAW.

Again, my only problem with it is that I find it almost impossible to manage large projects in it due to the workflow combined with no good option to combat the mess generated along the way by that workflow. No drag and dropping of tracks into folders is one of the main problems.

Normally I wouldn't even consider a switch, but it doesn't look like Fl studio will improve with regard to organization any time soon. Studio one 3 is great, but it seems more aimed towards linar workflow, so I think Ableton is my best bet due to how it handles clips?

Sorry for the long post. Any advice here would be much appreciated!

[werp]

Lovely colours ... To something that looks like the inside of a prison.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[xbitz]

there is per channel swing(in the time), and minimized tracks won't be zoomed with the others so automations can be grouped to their affected tracks nicely(double click on them will zoom them)

[digimoz]

there is per channel swing(in the time), and minimized tracks won't be zoomed with the others so automations can be grouped to their affected tracks nicely(double click on them will zoom them)

Thanks for replying.
channel swing is actually a global swing multiplier, so it wont work unless there is some global swing. The only alternative then is to use global swing and then turn it off manually for every track exept the one you want to affect. It's not that it can't be acomplished, it's just allot of effort compared to some alternatives.

And the zipping of groups is not nearly as flexible as folder tracks. It just shrink things down, but you can't create container clips for that group or give the group as a whole a name. Nor can you create a group inside a group to place automation there for example, or link the folder to a submix etc.
Also, it seems much easier to be able to just drag and drop tracks in and out of folders. It would also be helpful to be able to instantly hide/show all automation etc. That's why I'm considering Ableton.

I like fl, but organizing just seems easier in Ableton from what i have seen so far, and it has clip based workflow much like fl.

[rod_zero]

I use Live everyday, its interface is very clean and allows for fast working. nevertheless I don't consider it specially good for large projects as Cubase or Logic.

But yeah it is less messy that FL studio, you can hide things and make it look simple.

[stillshaded]

I started on fl studio, switched to ableton, then presonus studio one, then back to Fl studio.

I feel your pain on all of your complaints. There are a ton of weirdly implemented features in FL studio. Also, I'm generally very disorganized, so my projects look like nightmares.

But... Fl studio does have its particular workflow that can't be easily replaced if it works for you. That being said, it is possible that you might benefit from switching.

One of the main factors for me is the piano roll. I am huge piano roll need and nothing compares to fl in this regard. Also, I have grown accustomed to haphazardly throwing stuff into the playlist and really having the strange kind of freedom that FLS grants me. It's kind of a double edged sword. It works well with my impulsive scatterbraine way of working, but like you, it always bites me in the ass. But I found ways to cope. Actually, the limitations have helped me refine my process so that I focus on composition first before I get carried away with automation and lots of little bits.

I would say that next to fl studio, I do like ableton the most. If you do a lot of jamming with midi controllers and stuff, then ableton will almost certainly be superior. And even if you don't, it has a lot of strengths vs FL studio. The "racks" system is way batter than patched. Also, the mixer is much easier to work with. Overall it is much easier to stay organized and not feel overwhelmed.


Overall, every persons brain is so different, no one can say what software will work best for you. Just have to see for yourself. If you are finishing tracks, maybe don't jeopardize losing time. If you're not, maybe it's worth checking ableton out.

[dsan@mail.com]

I won't say much because the others have already said what needs to be said, but, there's no such thing as the perfect DAW.

The one you have, which ever one that is, is what it is. Another may do this or that in a different way but it's not perfect either..

Having said this, Live works for me, FL Studio not so much. But even Live has some misses.

[glokraw]

Use each tool based on it's strengths. Save a fresh idea created speedily
in FLS, and polish it at leisure in AL. Using only one daw for everything isn't lucky,
regardless of which one is chosen to maximise the bad luck.
Cheers

[chaosWyrM]

- Automation can't be hidden, and each one take up a whole track so all automation for everything is showing all the time, making it hard to see the track structure, unless I place clips on top of each other, something that causes problems on it's own..

- Constantly having to rename and color clips, channel rack and mixer items whenever you replace a synth or whatever. Ther'es no link between them that automate this, so you can end up having 3 different names for the same thing, one in the mixer, one in the channel rack and one in the playlist (arrange view). While in other daws this is usually all done automatically to keep it organized. If you change the name in the mixer it changes in the track as well. In Fl you have to do this manually.

while not exactly what you want...there are kind of workarounds for these.

to (somewhat) hide automations...simply resize the lanes to the smallest size:


you can simplify (not automate) the coloring and naming process, by choosing a color for the plugins...then selecting them with the selector to the right of the plugin in the channel rack....then go to the mixer, right click on a track then select channel routing -> rout selected channels to this track.

also if you want to do multiple routing...you can right click several selectors in the channel rack...then right click a mixer track select channel routing -> rout selected channels starting from this track. that will put all the selected plugins from the channel rack into the mixer along with the names and colors.

sounds like a lot of steps...but its only 3 (if youre only doing 1...if youre doing multiple...its however many youre doing + 2).

of course you still have to name and color them in the channel rack first.

you could also just open a plugin and press (ctl+l)...which will auto color, name, and assign to a mixer track...but youll get the same color every time.

again i realize that these arent really what you want...but they do help streamline a bit...maybe enough to make it tolerable for you.

[Tom Solid]

I understand you so good.... I used FL Studio for more than 15 years! Then finally swapped to Ableton. However, I still miss some FL Studio native plugins such as the 3OSC or some effects.... Therefore, I am still using FL Studio within Ableton as a plugin! It works perfectly and you can controll everything important (MIDI and Audio) in FL Studio directly in Ableton! How to do this you can see here

[inkwarp]

if i want to play and generate ideas, i use FL. once i got my head around it's idiosyncrasies i feel really fluid and great for immediacy.
i make mostly electronic music so Ableton is my goto for building structure, arranging, more complex editing. both apps are rewire capable so they can both be used together.
it's a close to an ideal setup i have reached. can't really praise one above the other but if i was forced to choose, ableton by a gnat's cock.
: )

[incubus]

I dunno, I know this was an old thread bumped to promote a vid, but I don't miss live. Not that I really understand FL very well, but live was messy to me as well.

Unfortunately, there is usually no real solution. Nothing, and I mean nothing does everything.

[Googly Smythe]

I wonder what the op went for in the end?

[crashedthecar]

100 tracks is a big ask to keep organised in any daw