KVR Audio

szurcio · Post by **szurcio** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:19 pm

I got a really good EBay deal on a Maschine Mikro - "everything working perfectly, excellent condition," great pictures, 100% positive feedback etc. so I clicked on Buy It Now. Before sending my payment, I just wanted to check with the seller if he had already released the software serial for the license transfer. It turned out he didn't even know what I was talking about. He said he would have to contact the guy he got it from to check. What should I do now? He's not very communicative and he doesn't seem to be willing to cancel the transaction. I haven't sent the payment yet because in this situation, I don't want to risk. What do I face? A "non-paying buyer" threat? I sometimes sell my stuff on EBay so I don't want him to damage my good feedback. There is no option for the buyer to cancel an EBay transaction so it would have to be the seller.

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:57 pm

You didn't ask before buying, the listing never said that it included software licence, and now you think that the seller is in the wrong ?
I suggest you pay what you owe and stop trying to change a deal after the fact.
Just because you wrongly purchased something without researching DOES NOT mean the seller is in the wrong, quite often things are sold by traders on Ebay and they may not even know that a licence has to be released.

murnau · Post by **murnau** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:16 pm

Yep, and most of the time "a really good deal" on hardware is because it just not come with any software license. I also can't see the seller did something wrong: Maybe he is a guy with good will and you can resolve the issue with him?

OutCider · Post by **OutCider** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:19 am

If you want legit de registered software with the hardware, which the seller knows nothing about, then inform them you're sorry, you clicked in error and are now backing out of the deal.
A reasonable person would accept your position and wouldn't try to penalise you for having to re-list his auction, but in the long run, I reckon it's worth the risk of a solitary negative feedback.

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:56 am

OutCider wrote:If you want legit de registered software with the hardware, which the seller knows nothing about, then inform them you're sorry, you clicked in error and are now backing out of the deal.
A reasonable person would accept your position and wouldn't try to penalise you for having to re-list his auction, but in the long run, I reckon it's worth the risk of a solitary negative feedback.

I think szurcio has a case. As far as I understand, NI doesn't allow someone to buy a Maschine controller from them without the Maschine software. It is reasonable for the OP to expect to have it included. The posting should have said software not available.. It was originally purchased as a bundle and should be sold as such unless specified directly. It is like ordering a plastic model airplane and finding parts are missing.

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:12 pm

Scotty wrote:
OutCider wrote:If you want legit de registered software with the hardware, which the seller knows nothing about, then inform them you're sorry, you clicked in error and are now backing out of the deal.
A reasonable person would accept your position and wouldn't try to penalise you for having to re-list his auction, but in the long run, I reckon it's worth the risk of a solitary negative feedback.

I think szurcio has a case. As far as I understand, NI doesn't allow someone to buy a Maschine controller from them without the Maschine software. It is reasonable for the OP to expect to have it included. The posting should have said software not available.. It was originally purchased as a bundle and should be sold as such unless specified directly. It is like ordering a plastic model airplane and finding parts are missing.

This of course is not the case at all, the hardware and software are both registered as separate products in service centre, If you contact NI they will even allow you to transfer them as individual items.
Just because NI only sell them as a package, does not mean that they always have to remain a package, in fact when you could get educational discount on the MK1 hardware, NI allowed the resale of the hardware but not the software.

There is no case at all for 'assuming' that hardware would come with the software, and anybody who does not ask the seller is in no position at all to then moan about the seller, if it is not listed, then it is not for sale, assumptions do not magically make things appear.

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:47 pm

My point stands. It is reasonable to assume that the products would be bundled together as that is the only way that they can be purchased from NI.... Unbundling the product from its original form makes it equivalent to selling a product for parts. There is nothing wrong with this but it needs to be clearly marked. If it wasn't I am completely with the OP on this and I think Ebay and Paypal would be as well.

Yes, NI allows separate registration and indeed transfers but that wouldn't be known by most buyers. That is arcane knowledge and not relevant. Unless otherwise clearly stipulated the buyer would be expecting the entire product as sold by NI and that is only done as a package. My repeated use of the word "reasonable" is not incidental. - Scotty

[/quote]This of course is not the case at all, the hardware and software are both registered as separate products in service centre, If you contact NI they will even allow you to transfer them as individual items.
Just because NI only sell them as a package, does not mean that they always have to remain a package, in fact when you could get educational discount on the MK1 hardware, NI allowed the resale of the hardware but not the software.

There is no case at all for 'assuming' that hardware would come with the software, and anybody who does not ask the seller is in no position at all to then moan about the seller, if it is not listed, then it is not for sale, assumptions do not magically make things appear.[/quote]

OutCider · Post by **OutCider** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:59 am

bungle wrote: There is no case at all for 'assuming' that hardware would come with the software, and anybody who does not ask the seller is in no position at all to then moan about the seller, if it is not listed, then it is not for sale, assumptions do not magically make things appear.

Whether the op made a false assumption about the software being included, no worries. Ultimately if he doesn't want to buy it now, even though he said he would, he doesn't have to. Being correct on a forum means next to nothing when compared with being stuck with a toy needing the added expense of software.

For the sake of a pretty meaningless + or - ebay rating, to the op I say just back out of the purchase and be done with it.
It's really isn't a big deal.

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:53 am

Good point.

OutCider wrote: Whether the op made a false assumption about the software being included, no worries. Ultimately if he doesn't want to buy it now, even though he said he would, he doesn't have to. Being correct on a forum means next to nothing when compared with being stuck with a toy needing the added expense of software.

For the sake of a pretty meaningless + or - ebay rating, to the op I say just back out of the purchase and be done with it.
It's really isn't a big deal.

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:28 pm

Scotty wrote:Yes, NI allows separate registration and indeed transfers but that wouldn't be known by most buyers. That is arcane knowledge and not relevant. Unless otherwise clearly stipulated the buyer would be expecting the entire product as sold by NI and that is only done as a package. My repeated use of the word "reasonable" is not incidental. - Scotty

And my use of the word trader was not incidental either, a big portion of sellers on ebay are traders, they will not know NIs policy of only selling hardware with software, this is not their problem, the buyer has the option to ask questions, every time i have gone to buy a Maschine on ebay for somebody i message the seller and ask, this is my prerogative, not the sellers, if they have not listed the software then they are 100% in the right and are selling what they list.

As has been stated it is a non issue because the buyer can refuse the sale, however trying to get out of it by saying the seller should have known is utter silliness and should not be done, take the hit, either pay for the product or take the negative feedback.

chaosWyrM · Post by **chaosWyrM** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:04 pm

Scotty wrote:My point stands. It is reasonable to assume that the products would be bundled together as that is the only way that they can be purchased from NI

it is not reasonable at all to assume anything is included that is not explicitly listed as included.

szurcio · Post by **szurcio** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:23 pm

OK - good news. The seller has finally admitted he owned the Maschine software license and he figured out how to transfer it so I finalized the purchase. It took him about a week though to understand what i need.

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:56 pm

It all depends on how it is posted. - Scotty

chaosWyrM wrote:
Scotty wrote:My point stands. It is reasonable to assume that the products would be bundled together as that is the only way that they can be purchased from NI
it is not reasonable at all to assume anything is included that is not explicitly listed as included.

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:58 pm

Good news... you'd be covered anyway just as it should be but well handled by the seller. - Scotty

szurcio wrote:OK - good news. The seller has finally admitted he owned the Maschine software license and he figured out how to transfer it so I finalized the purchase. It took him about a week though to understand what i need.

Maschine purchase on EBay - how to solve the problem?