Zebra crashes in Logic X

[Telenose]

Hi,

finally I updated my System from Logic 8 to El Capitan by using Logic X.
I installed Zebra on the new System by using the original Installers.
It run without any problems in my old Platform, but now, in spite of being valid in the Plug-In-Manager of Logic X, the program always crashes down when trying to open Zebra.
I would be very glad if anybody could help me!
Thanks
Rainer

[palebluedun]

Try reloading Zebra2.7.2 latest revision 3898 and see if it works ok then.

[simon.a.billington]

Hang on, what the hell is a zebra doing driving anyway!! Hahaha

Sorry, count resist.

Zebra should be compatible with Logic, just make sure you're running the most recent 64-bit version, plus it could be worth checking that your Logic is up to date as well.

[Urs]

Oops, misread...

If the problem persists, please send the crash report and whatever details possible to support at u-he dot com

- U

[fmr]

It run without any problems in my old Platform, but now, in spite of being valid in the Plug-In-Manager of Logic X, the program always crashes down when trying to open Zebra.

Which confirms what I've been saying. These "validations" are a PITA for the users, forcing us to wait for many minutes every time the app "decides" to make a scan, or a new version is launched, and their utility is questionable, to say the least. IMO, the hosts should change to scan just the plug-ins the moment they are launched for the first time. This would save us many, many minutes of useless waste of time.

[simon.a.billington]

I think that's what Logic does, scans it just once after install. If it passes it gets added to the registry, no more checking.

[fmr]

I think that's what Logic does, scans it just once after install. If it passes it gets added to the registry, no more checking.

Except when some system update, program update or whatever deletes the database. Then everything starts all over again. And, as observed, since the plug-ins are "tested" to pass validation, it becomes a futile exercise, that grants nothing and prevents nothing.

[simon.a.billington]

I think that's what Logic does, scans it just once after install. If it passes it gets added to the registry, no more checking.

Except when some system update, program update or whatever deletes the database. Then everything starts all over again. And, as observed, since the plug-ins are "tested" to pass validation, it becomes a futile exercise, that grants nothing and prevents nothing.

Well yeah, but if the system has its registry deleted or corrupted, how is the software going to know it's already done that test?!?

Those tests are actually run to make sure the plugins comply to the strict standards. It's those strict standards that prevent the plugins crashing your system all the time. Before there was AU, VSTs were crashing Logic multiple times in one session. Enter in AU and crashes are so much more rare. So it's not like there isn't a purpose to it.

It's only a few mins out of our life to save us countless hours of frustration. Personally I think it's a more than fair trade off, as frustrating as it may be at times. I just go and grab a coffee while it happens.

[fmr]

Well yeah, but if the system has its registry deleted or corrupted, how is the software going to know it's already done that test?!?

It wouldn't bother anyone if they just test those that we load WHEN we load them. That way, the plug-ins that are rarely used would not need to be scanned BEFORE we even start working with the program. And some plug-ins take a really long time to be scanned (Absynth and Synthmaster come to mind)

Those tests are actually run to make sure the plugins comply to the strict standards. It's those strict standards that prevent the plugins crashing your system all the time. Before there was AU, VSTs were crashing Logic multiple times in one session. Enter in AU and crashes are so much more rare. So it's not like there isn't a purpose to it.

The problem is that there are plug-ins that work perfectly, but they don't pass validation, and there are others that pass validation but don't work as they should. Crashes still happen, and there are other problems besides crashes.

It's only a few mins out of our life to save us countless hours of frustration. Personally I think it's a more than fair trade off, as frustrating as it may be at times. I just go and grab a coffee while it happens.

I am in this business way before VST and plug-ins existed, had my fair dose of crashes, and survived. I remember when I was able to launch the sequencer in a matter of seconds (and when I say seconds, I say four or five seconds). Now, Cubase takes minutes, and when it wants to scan my plug-ins folder, it's like half an hour. And some scan utilities are so stupid that they just stuck at a plug-in when they have a problem (for example, Alchemy always asks me to point to the data folder - Mux always displays an error because it can't write where it is installed, etc.). When the validator reaches that plug-in, it stays there until I click to close the message, oor point to the folder, or whatever. So, if I leave to take a meal, when I get back, the job is just half-done because it stopped.

The only way I think it's bearable is the way cakewalk is doing it - running the stupid validator in the background, and allowing us to start right away. Everyone should do that way, at least. Or give the user the option to validate or not. I would choose NOT... anytime.

[simon.a.billington]

Too each his own. But I'd prefer to want to know if I have a problem before I start a session, not find out half way through only to try and load something, have it fail validation and leave me in a bad position, or worse, crash the system.

Yeah bugs still exist, plugins still crash, but it's no way nearly to the same regularity. I can go months without a crash, back in the day crashes were pretty much daily... stark difference.

And if a plugin that works perfectly fails validation, then in my mind it isn't working perfectly. There's a nasty crash lurking around in there somewhere just waiting to strike when you least suspect it.

Besides validation is usually only a small handful of plugins at a time. Rarely do you need to rescan the whole index. When that does happen, I'm off making a coffee. I see this glass as one half full, not half empty.

[fmr]

Too each his own. But I'd prefer to want to know if I have a problem before I start a session, not find out half way through only to try and load something, have it fail validation and leave me in a bad position, or worse, crash the system.

That's the point: if you were going to load a plug-in for the first time, and it failed validation, it would not be loaded, and your system would not crash. Why would it crash your entire system by failing validation then, and not crash the system when you are scanning all of them at once?

And you would only scan THAT plug-in. Simple. Do what's needed ONLY when it's needed.

[simon.a.billington]

Too each his own. But I'd prefer to want to know if I have a problem before I start a session, not find out half way through only to try and load something, have it fail validation and leave me in a bad position, or worse, crash the system.

That's the point: if you were going to load a plug-in for the first time, and it failed validation, it would not be loaded, and your system would not crash. Why would it crash your entire system by failing validation then, and not crash the system when you are scanning all of them at once?

And you would only scan THAT plug-in. Simple. Do what's needed ONLY when it's needed.

I still don't see it an issue. Are you that pressed you can't afford an extra 15secs??

The validation happens before th audio engine is loaded. There could be a good chance they would have to shut down and reboot the engine every time they did a scan. I would think that to be more intrusive.

[fmr]

I still don't see it an issue. Are you that pressed you can't afford an extra 15secs??

The validation happens before th audio engine is loaded. There could be a good chance they would have to shut down and reboot the engine every time they did a scan. I would think that to be more intrusive.

15 seconds? Did you read what I wrote? How many plug-ins do you have? For me, an entire scan takes almost an hour and that if there are no crashes (which, in the majority of times, are just caused by the validator itself, not the plug-ins). And I have to be standing there, stupidly looking, because, if the routine stops for some reason, it will not return until I click somewhere to make it go.

And, no, they do not need to restart the audio engine after the scan. Cakewalk does that without restart the audio engine, and others too. I know that some do the restart (MOTU, namely, after a re-scan of a plug-in, restarts the audio engine). Logic, I'm not certain, but if they do, they should learn from Cakewalk. Anyway, I would prefer that to an entire scan of the folder, every time the file is deleted for one reason or the other.

[simon.a.billington]

Dude 15 secs is for a couple of plugins. It's rare you need to do a whole scan. Your car probably goes to the mechanics more often. In 99% of all the scanning scenarios you are only validating a small handful of plugins.

I, myself, have far too many, but still I shamelessly buy more. Rescanning is a bitch, but is usually done in about 5-10.

It's not like what you're saying doesn't have merit, but I personally think there are far bigger problems then being convened over a full rescan that only would only need to happen a few times a year.

Apple has some very smart people working for them, because they get to be choosy about who they employ. Smart and creative thinkers. I'm sure if they thought there was a better way, they'd be doing it. Perhaps there is, but it's low on their priority list too because they also aren't concerned with a scenario that happens only a couple times in the year. They would be more concerned in dealing with the daily scenario, that's of higher priority.

[fmr]

Apple has some very smart people working for them, because they get to be choosy about who they employ. Smart and creative thinkers. I'm sure if they thought there was a better way, they'd be doing it. Perhaps there is, but it's low on their priority list too because they also aren't concerned with a scenario that happens only a couple times in the year. They would be more concerned in dealing with the daily scenario, that's of higher priority.

Apple routine is not the worst, since it scans several plug-ins at once. Right now, perhaps the worst are Steinberg as MOTU. Both DAWs take an eternity to start, and demand full scans too often. Anyway, I maintain that the Cakewalk way is the best way. What is Apple main concerns nawadays remains a mistery to me, but I'd bet it's not music software, almost for certain.