...is Cubase worth the extra scratch over Bitwig?
More specifically, when it comes to the ROLI Seaboard RISE and Linnstrument?
Manually sequencing is similar in Bitwig to the way you do it in Studio One, and Cubase is radically different, so Bitwig would, at minimum, replace Studio One for me, though it's still lacking a few of the features. Cubase would simply supplement S1 for me, and I would do most of my sequencing in S1v3.
While you can use a Rise or Linnstrument in S1, it's a bit...convoluted. I'd like to be able to use either Bitwig or Cubase to perform (Hahahahaha!) on an expressive instrument and export the MIDI to S1 for editing and mixing. There are also a few other features of Cubase that I could see myself using, which brings Cubase's perceived value up for me. However, as I said, Bitwig, if it's up to snuff and not severely behind S1v3, has the chance to replace S1 for me, and I'd be able to sell or trade it, effectively bringing Bitwig's cost to zero for me.
So...how much better is the MIDI in Cubase over Bitwig?
When it Comes to MIDI...Cubase vs. Bitwig
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- KVRAF
- 1946 posts since 25 Feb, 2005
Midi in S1 is pretty basic in comparison to Cubase, how it handles Rise IDK. I do like the way Bitwig's midi is done and it is different in its implementation. Certainly on a Mac I would think Cubase/Logic midi are the best.Blue Phase Music wrote:...is Cubase worth the extra scratch over Bitwig?
More specifically, when it comes to the ROLI Seaboard RISE and Linnstrument?
Manually sequencing is similar in Bitwig to the way you do it in Studio One, and Cubase is radically different, so Bitwig would, at minimum, replace Studio One for me, though it's still lacking a few of the features. Cubase would simply supplement S1 for me, and I would do most of my sequencing in S1v3.
While you can use a Rise or Linnstrument in S1, it's a bit...convoluted. I'd like to be able to use either Bitwig or Cubase to perform (Hahahahaha!) on an expressive instrument and export the MIDI to S1 for editing and mixing. There are also a few other features of Cubase that I could see myself using, which brings Cubase's perceived value up for me. However, as I said, Bitwig, if it's up to snuff and not severely behind S1v3, has the chance to replace S1 for me, and I'd be able to sell or trade it, effectively bringing Bitwig's cost to zero for me.
So...how much better is the MIDI in Cubase over Bitwig?
Mac Studio M4
15.7.3
Cubase 15, Ableton Live 12
15.7.3
Cubase 15, Ableton Live 12
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 7903 posts since 24 May, 2009 from Nationalism isn't my thing...
Thank you, however, I'm on Windows, and I know S1 is lacking in the MIDI department. I find it inspiring in the sequencing department.
I'd like to know if Cubase is significantly better at MIDI than Bitwig.
Will Cubase allow polyphonic after-touch with Zebra2? According to one user, Bitwig won't allow it, and only the highest note played responds to after-touch. I'm not sure if this is due to the controller that was being used (ROLI Seaboard RISE) or host (Bitwig).
I don't know about y'all, but the money to lay down for Cubase Pro or Bitwig PLUS the cost of a Seaboard RISE is significant. I need to know if there's a solution that will allow either a RISE or a Komplete Kontrol to play nice with Zebra2 (my favorite synth) and allow polyphonic after-touch.
First off, I wonder if someone with Bitwig, a controller with after-touch, and Zebra, and a user with Cubase, a controller with after-touch, and Zebra2 could let me know if Zebra2 reacts to after-touch polyphonically (per-note expression) or monophonically.
If there's someone with Cubase and a RISE and Zebra2, that would be the best option. I know how Zebra reacts to the RISE in Bitwig.
One red flag for me in the Bitwig vs. Cubase Pro dual is that you cannot trigger one multi-timbrel instrument in Bitwig from more than one MIDI channel for multiple distinct parts (say, guitar and bass parts in one instance of Kontakt.) without a pretty involved script and workaround (if I read what I read correctly).
Just trying to answer some of these questions before I commit to a RISE or Linnstrument, or to find out if I should just get a keyboard controller with after-touch.
I'd like to know if Cubase is significantly better at MIDI than Bitwig.
Will Cubase allow polyphonic after-touch with Zebra2? According to one user, Bitwig won't allow it, and only the highest note played responds to after-touch. I'm not sure if this is due to the controller that was being used (ROLI Seaboard RISE) or host (Bitwig).
I don't know about y'all, but the money to lay down for Cubase Pro or Bitwig PLUS the cost of a Seaboard RISE is significant. I need to know if there's a solution that will allow either a RISE or a Komplete Kontrol to play nice with Zebra2 (my favorite synth) and allow polyphonic after-touch.
First off, I wonder if someone with Bitwig, a controller with after-touch, and Zebra, and a user with Cubase, a controller with after-touch, and Zebra2 could let me know if Zebra2 reacts to after-touch polyphonically (per-note expression) or monophonically.
If there's someone with Cubase and a RISE and Zebra2, that would be the best option. I know how Zebra reacts to the RISE in Bitwig.
One red flag for me in the Bitwig vs. Cubase Pro dual is that you cannot trigger one multi-timbrel instrument in Bitwig from more than one MIDI channel for multiple distinct parts (say, guitar and bass parts in one instance of Kontakt.) without a pretty involved script and workaround (if I read what I read correctly).
Just trying to answer some of these questions before I commit to a RISE or Linnstrument, or to find out if I should just get a keyboard controller with after-touch.
Blue Phase Music
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 7903 posts since 24 May, 2009 from Nationalism isn't my thing...
Yup, I've installed the demo, but I don't have a controller with after-touch to experiment with.xcentric wrote:You might want to try the Bitwig demo. The GUI is slow as molasses when midi clips start piling up.
I'm leaning toward Cubase, anyway, but so many people have been trying to steer me to Bitwig. I have Cubase AI 8...but...3rd Party VST.
I used to have Cubase Pro, but switched to Studio One because I found it to be so much more inspiring for my own workflow. 
Blue Phase Music
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- KVRAF
- 1946 posts since 25 Feb, 2005
Not a definitive answer but he seems to be using poly aftertouch in Zebra and Cubase.
https://support.roli.com/article/using- ... th-cubase/
Cubase definitely supports it, why not post on the UHE forum about Zebras implementation of it.
Last edited by woodsdenis on Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mac Studio M4
15.7.3
Cubase 15, Ableton Live 12
15.7.3
Cubase 15, Ableton Live 12
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 7903 posts since 24 May, 2009 from Nationalism isn't my thing...
If I'm hearing that correctly, I believe you're right.woodsdenis wrote:
Not a definitive answer but he seems to be using poly aftertouch in Zebra and Cubase.
Looks like Cubase it is (...probably).
Thanks!
Blue Phase Music
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 7903 posts since 24 May, 2009 from Nationalism isn't my thing...
I wait with bated breath.Ciberithm wrote:I didn't see any poly after-touch in this video. I'm going to load up Cubase and Zebra2 and find out if it can. Stay tuned.
Blue Phase Music
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- KVRian
- 936 posts since 28 Jan, 2008
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- KVRist
- 366 posts since 7 Apr, 2011
OK, here's what I observed. Please don't take this as gospel - it is only my observations. I recorded a MIDI track with an organ sound and a single held note on C3. I configured AT to modulate OSC1 tuning. That was easy to hear. I then started play back and overdubbed with a single note.
With Bitwig I could get poly AT to work with Zebra2 and the Roli in MPE mode. But if I used the "force MPE" option in Bitwig, the AT on one note affected all notes. Many times after releasing the key with AT applied, the recorded note did not play at the proper pitch. Moral of this story is don't use force MPE mode with Zebra in Bitwig. I also tried playing both notes simultaneously (Roli in MPE mode and Bitwig Zebra track NOT in MPE mode), and it sounded to me like AT was affecting each note independently, so that is good.
The results in Cubase were the same as Bitwig in MPE mode - AT on one note affected both the recorded note and the played note. The recorded note did not play at the correct pitch after releasing the played note, and also did not return to the correct pitch after stopping and then resuming playback.
I've only been with Bitwig for about a week now, but I am starting to really like it. Going back into Cubase and editing MIDI just seemed weird after using Bitwig, but that is likely just a personal preference for Bitwig's workflow.
I hope this helps. I really love my Roli keyboard, and learning now to set t all up is just the price for being an early adopter.
With Bitwig I could get poly AT to work with Zebra2 and the Roli in MPE mode. But if I used the "force MPE" option in Bitwig, the AT on one note affected all notes. Many times after releasing the key with AT applied, the recorded note did not play at the proper pitch. Moral of this story is don't use force MPE mode with Zebra in Bitwig. I also tried playing both notes simultaneously (Roli in MPE mode and Bitwig Zebra track NOT in MPE mode), and it sounded to me like AT was affecting each note independently, so that is good.
The results in Cubase were the same as Bitwig in MPE mode - AT on one note affected both the recorded note and the played note. The recorded note did not play at the correct pitch after releasing the played note, and also did not return to the correct pitch after stopping and then resuming playback.
I've only been with Bitwig for about a week now, but I am starting to really like it. Going back into Cubase and editing MIDI just seemed weird after using Bitwig, but that is likely just a personal preference for Bitwig's workflow.
I hope this helps. I really love my Roli keyboard, and learning now to set t all up is just the price for being an early adopter.
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- KVRian
- 868 posts since 2 Jan, 2013
my experience with both a madrona labs soundplane and eigenharp using polyphonic expression (both MPE and voice per channel)
Bitwig is pretty good for built-in instruments and for vsts which support MPE ( only a couple unfortunately) , it makes it 'easy', and i like the clip side of it.
BUT Cubase allows you to record any CC polyphonically, so it works for MPE, but also voice per channel (e.g. u-he synths) /multitimbral synths, and the expression editing is much better than Bitwig - the only drawback is its a bit more involved to setup
perhaps bitwig will mature (and MPE becomes better supported) and provide both 'ease of use' and full functionality, but for now Cubase has the edge for me.
Bitwig is pretty good for built-in instruments and for vsts which support MPE ( only a couple unfortunately) , it makes it 'easy', and i like the clip side of it.
BUT Cubase allows you to record any CC polyphonically, so it works for MPE, but also voice per channel (e.g. u-he synths) /multitimbral synths, and the expression editing is much better than Bitwig - the only drawback is its a bit more involved to setup
perhaps bitwig will mature (and MPE becomes better supported) and provide both 'ease of use' and full functionality, but for now Cubase has the edge for me.
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
[DELETED]
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- KVRAF
- 27000 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
Ableton Live Suite is more powerful than CubaseTheoM wrote:Cubase. It's the most powerful midi sequencer in the universe, if you want the midi sequencer that can do the absolute most with midi.