Live9 - clip launching order/logic

[Harry_HH]

I'm ashamed asking very fundamental thing of the Live9 session view. I don't use Live 'in Live' or 'dj', thats why avoided facing these 'clip launching' questions before:

How to define that the clip I launch play and not stop before the end of the clip although I have pressed the next clip launch in the same channel?
Or: if I want that the first clip plays repeatedly all the time although launching other clips in the channel.

I've tried in the Launch box different launching modes and follow actions, so far without succes to get the above.
In this sense the manual is not most informative, many details but not the basics of the launching
logic I rose above.

[elxsound]

How to define that the clip I launch play and not stop before the end of the clip although I have pressed the next clip launch in the same channel?
Or: if I want that the first clip plays repeatedly all the time although launching other clips in the channel.

You can't for clips in the same channel (same track), because it will only play one clip at a time (on that same track).

BUT...

If you are launching the next "Scene" (clips aligned horizontally across multiple tracks) but want a certain clip to continue to play without retriggering that clip (and thus, playing back from the beginning), you can right click BELOW the clip and choose "Remove Stop Button" or Command/Control+E. That way it will continue to play the clip from the previous scene without stopping or retriggering it.

This of course is useful, like when a clip has 16 bars of content, while adjacent clips play 8 on one scene, and then on the next scene you need to launch next set of 8 bar clips.

[grymmjack]

To launch the clip and keep it playing while another plays, the only way to do that is by putting it into it's own track (channel). If you need the FX from the other channel the clip that continuously plays in to process the other track (channel), simply group the tracks (channels) and move the FX to the group track.

If you want a clip to keep playing it's duration even if you launch another clip as the first plays and you want that first clip to play to the entire length you need to use what are called follow actions. They would need to be next to each other (that is the first above the second one), and then set the follow actions up so that the first clips follow action is "next" and it's odds of happening are 100%, then define the first clips length in the follow action length section to be the entirety of that clip. Then define the next clip in the sequence the same way.

Follow actions are literally that - actions that follow a clip launch. Check out the manual section there. They are extremely versatile. There are implicit groups of clips if you stack them - they are all neighbors and follow each other without cell gaps in the session view, that also affect the outcome of follow actions. For example one of my favorite things to do is to create clip groups and then randomize the entire stack of what happens next by choosing the "Any" follow action which will jump to a random clip in the group of clips.

Hope this helps,

[Harry_HH]

Thank you for replies, so far.
I have to read about follow actions.

Just comment at this stage: Live is famous of the 'dj' use, its dedicated for this purpose. Therefore HOW COME ??? this very basic live function can be this difficult (that I have to read manual to learn this),

I'm not a dj but if I was, one of the first fundaments for the sequencer was the feature EASILY define if the triggered clip will a) stop immediately whe the next clip is triggered in the track, b) play always in the end and stop, c) play repeatedly (loop) when triggered once until stop pressed. These reardless the clips are in the same or different tracks.

These 3 modes are the first ones which comes to my mind when thinking the live use. For mebit looks that Ableton has created about 1001 very exotic/complex live use features but forgot the very fundamental, most import ones.???

I'm willing to change my opinion of this, if someone shows me to do the above easily. 'Easily' in this case is 1-2 mouse clicks/commands per mode.

[xbitz]

there is no such an action in Live, should check http://isotonikstudios.com/isotonik/mod ... es/follow/ or the free https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/follow- ... k-studios/ the AL concept is this one

[elxsound]

Thank you for replies, so far.
I have to read about follow actions.

Just comment at this stage: Live is famous of the 'dj' use, its dedicated for this purpose. Therefore HOW COME ??? this very basic live function can be this difficult (that I have to read manual to learn this),

I'm not a dj but if I was, one of the first fundaments for the sequencer was the feature EASILY define if the triggered clip will a) stop immediately whe the next clip is triggered in the track, b) play always in the end and stop, c) play repeatedly (loop) when triggered once until stop pressed. These reardless the clips are in the same or different tracks.

These 3 modes are the first ones which comes to my mind when thinking the live use. For mebit looks that Ableton has created about 1001 very exotic/complex live use features but forgot the very fundamental, most import ones.???

I'm willing to change my opinion of this, if someone shows me to do the above easily. 'Easily' in this case is 1-2 mouse clicks/commands per mode.

I don't think it is so much an issue of complexity, but a matter understanding the workflow and of accepting that only 1 clip can play in a single track at one time.

Next its a matter of understanding scenes (horizontal) versus tracks (vertical). I can't remember if there is an actual limit on number of tracks but it is at least 100, so you can have as many tracks as you require and play them all simultaneously (as a scene).

Now... where the RTFM part comes in...

Admittedly, the remove stop button is not an obvious option, but once you know its there, it seems to make sense (or either I've just grown used to it).

Clip detail and follow actions. Again, I can remember when I first started and I didn't think the follow actions were obvious. BUT, Harry_HH, I've got a good feeling that you don't need these features for what you describe in the OP.

Follow actions (and in combo with remove stop) are very useful, for example if you have a set of clips that you'd like to cycle in a specific order (like perhaps a set of drum clips set to follow from top to bottom) but you want the freedom to launch scenes in any order, or repeatedly. For this you remove the stop button from your set of clips and then set the order for clip follow.

[Harry_HH]

Once again, thank you for all good comments.
The fact that only one clip can play in the same track at the time means means that you have to spread different parts (clips) wide horizontally, which makes a bit larger songs hard(er) to control, just because you have to scroll the window and can't see all the song parts in the same time.
I would imagine that creating routing system which allows several clips playing in the same track is not impossible task. I may be wrong. (If I'm not, roll up your sleeves, Ableton, and give it to us).
Removing the stop-button is a good feature to know but does not solve the above challenge.

Follow actions is something I have to study.

[elxsound]

The routing part is actually very easy in Live as you can alway group tracks by selecting your tracks, followed by Command/Control+G (and then they'll appear as one track until you expand to see the sub-tracks of the group). Live automatically routes audio of the sub tracks to the parent track, so its a very easy process compared many other hosts.

You can also resize the width of the tracks, individually or all at once by holding Alt/Option while resizing.

[DJ Warmonger]

The fact that only one clip can play in the same track at the time means means that you have to spread different parts (clips) wide horizontally, which makes a bit larger songs hard(er) to control, just because you have to scroll the window and can't see all the song parts in the same time.

It is by design. How would you want to play two different melodies with one and the same instruments? Show me any synth that can play two midi sequences at once

Clips are used to switch between different phrases. Different instruments are spread out in different tracks, this is just as simple. Just check the tutorial:

[Harry_HH]

The fact that only one clip can play in the same track at the time means means that you have to spread different parts (clips) wide horizontally, which makes a bit larger songs hard(er) to control, just because you have to scroll the window and can't see all the song parts in the same time.

It is by design. How would you want to play two different melodies with one and the same instruments? Show me any synth that can play two midi sequences at once

Clips are used to switch between different phrases. Different instruments are spread out in different tracks, this is just as simple. Just check the tutorial:

Yes, thank you for your comment. But: the situation that one-clip-per-track-at the time is the "fact"at the moment doesn't mean that this is the case forever. New initiatives is the way how new innovations have been created. What is "impossible" today can be everyday life tomorrow.

The solution could be e.g., that although the clips are located in the same track, each slot can be routed separately. I don't know, I'm not a programmer, my job as a user is rise questions, the developers can find solutions.

[DJ Warmonger]

one-clip-per-track-at the time is the "fact"at the moment doesn't mean that this is the case forever. New initiatives is the way how new innovations have been created. What is "impossible" today can be everyday life tomorrow.

For today you can duplicate the track instead of starting strange threads.

[Harry_HH]

one-clip-per-track-at the time is the "fact"at the moment doesn't mean that this is the case forever. New initiatives is the way how new innovations have been created. What is "impossible" today can be everyday life tomorrow.

For today you can duplicate the track instead of starting strange threads.

If you take this attitude, I have to follow your writings and blame your Kvr threads 'strange'.
My motives for this thread are honest, based on need of knowledge.

[elxsound]

I do realize that its possible I'm biased as I've used Live since I first got started with software recording, but I believe a lot of thought went into creating a system for playback that makes sense, and this grid of horizontal launching vs vertical clips on individual tracks makes for the most logical layout (for many reasons that might not seem so obvious at the moment).

I also don't think there will be a replacement of this system until we begin using 3D holographic interfaces that allow for even more opportunities. Microsoft's Holo Lens or the numerous VR glasses might make this a real thing and not just a tin-foil hat suggestion... And now back to topic....

Using Session view means subscribing to a very specific workflow, where (although not limited to), a way to build up a progression would be to work your way from top to down. Building up sections of your song/track should be thought of as Right to Left or Left to Right.

To counter the horizontal "bulge" for when the number of tracks can be quite large, there's groups.

Setting up groups in Live is extremely easy.

Most well organized Live sets will often get grouped into the major applicable categories, such as Drums, FX, Vocals, Bass, Synths, Guitars, Pads (again as it applies) so for purpose of playback, you'll only see somewhere from 3-7 tracks (despite the possibly much larger number of sub tracks).

Yes, it definitely can get quite cumbersome dealing with numerous tracks especially if you are still in the development phase as opposed to playback phase, but if you are serious about making use of Live for completing projects, then good organization from the onset is very important.

Anyways, good luck with diving in. If you're interested... if you get stuck at any point, feel free to send a PM too and I'll do my best to help.

[Harry_HH]

I do realize that its possible I'm biased as I've used Live since I first got started with software recording, but I believe a lot of thought went into creating a system for playback that makes sense, and this grid of horizontal launching vs vertical clips on individual tracks makes for the most logical layout (for many reasons that might not seem so obvious at the moment).

I also don't think there will be a replacement of this system until we begin using 3D holographic interfaces that allow for even more opportunities. Microsoft's Holo Lens or the numerous VR glasses might make this a real thing and not just a tin-foil hat suggestion... And now back to topic....

Using Session view means subscribing to a very specific workflow, where (although not limited to), a way to build up a progression would be to work your way from top to down. Building up sections of your song/track should be thought of as Right to Left or Left to Right.

To counter the horizontal "bulge" for when the number of tracks can be quite large, there's groups.

Setting up groups in Live is extremely easy.

Most well organized Live sets will often get grouped into the major applicable categories, such as Drums, FX, Vocals, Bass, Synths, Guitars, Pads (again as it applies) so for purpose of playback, you'll only see somewhere from 3-7 tracks (despite the possibly much larger number of sub tracks).

Yes, it definitely can get quite cumbersome dealing with numerous tracks especially if you are still in the development phase as opposed to playback phase, but if you are serious about making use of Live for completing projects, then good organization from the onset is very important.

Anyways, good luck with diving in. If you're interested... if you get stuck at any point, feel free to send a PM too and I'll do my best to help.

Thank you for the useful, friendly comments

I'm the first one to admit my limitations in the use of the Live -although used it alonside the Logic for years, but as said, I'm more a 'traditional' composer who does 99 % of the work in the arrangement section.

However - often 'newbies' are those person the developer should listen - their work flows are intuitive and not 'fixed' to the learned patterns yet, as is the case with experienced users. They tend to think things differently. 'Differently' is not always a good way, it can be just ignorence, but sometimes you find pearls among those initiatives.

Anyway, my gratitude for all commentators of this thread - long live the Kvr!