KVR Audio

Equilibrium · Post by **Equilibrium** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:03 am

Hi, I've decided to create my own stuido this summer but am finding it a little harder than expected.

I already own a Roland TD6 Electronic Drumkit and a Kawai ES1 keyboard which I would like to intergrate. I have as well a Soundblaster Audigy Plat sound card and some quite ok Monitors. I don't really want to add any more hardware, if I can avoid it though. The system also has Cubase and Wavelab.

Rather than program the drums as such, I want to use the drumkit to play in stuff as I don't like the timing that software gives to certain patterns. What I would like to know is what additional software may be useful and also what is the best software out there for drums. I am very concerned about the drums being perfect, so anything that is good for drums, sample whatever, what is the top stuff. Any advice at all I would be really grateful for.

Thank you very much

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:25 am

First of, if you want to use your electronic drumkit you will most likely have to take the plunge and buy another soundcard offering the lowest possible latency. Elsewise recording virtual instrument drums (whatever they may be) will not feel good to you while recording.
I don't think an Audigy goes as low as 128 or 64 samples buffersize, but that's what you defenitely want to do drums in realtime. I can recommend a card such as M-Audios Audiophile. You will love it anyways as the converters are a thousand times better than what you will find on the Audigy.

If you are lusting for the most realistic drumsounds it seems as if fxpansions BFD is the thing to get (www.fxpansion.com - make sure to also check the video demo at sonicstate, there's a link).

In case you're looking for a nice option to trigger more electronic sounds as well, I can again recommend an fxpansion product, DR-008 this time.
Perhaps any of the usual softsamplers will do as well, but IMO a dedicated drum sampler is the way to go in case you're concerned about drums.

Equilibrium · Post by **Equilibrium** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:50 pm

Thanks a lot for the reply mate. Getting a new soundcard will be a bitch considering I have barely used this one, but if that's what it takes I'll go for it.

I'm gonna check out the DR 008 thing as well as the other stuff, thank you.

Sorry just another slightly mundane question. Would I be able to apply effects in real time to the drum sounds without the use of a mixing desk? If so how?

Cheers

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:02 pm

Equilibrium wrote: Sorry just another slightly mundane question. Would I be able to apply effects in real time to the drum sounds without the use of a mixing desk? If so how?

Your sequencer will do that for you. As everything happens inside that, you can just apply any sort of delivered or additionally installed FX in realtime, the only limit being your computer's horsepower.

pHz · Post by **pHz** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:09 pm

as an interim workaround before getting a new soundcard you might want to try the kx -project 3rd party drivers for the audigy to get lower latency immediately (but do some reading round 1st - IIRC some folks have had trouble with them) ...

... a better bet (IF they work with the audigy) is to grab the free generic ASIO drivers from asio4all (using these i can get the latency on my laptops USB soundcard down to 2msec at a push - certainly quick enough for drumming) ...

... i agree with sascha as to software - BFD if you want realistic drums and dr008 if you want a mixture of stuff - but you might also want to check out nuedge microtonic for purely electronic korg / X0X type sounds ...

... as for applying effects realtime i guess it depends on the signal routing of your host - i dont know cubase so cant comment other than to say my preference would be to record the drums dry into cubase / wavelab and apply any effects afterwards - that way you can switch things around and experiment without having to re-record your whole drum track each time

slainte

rob

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:24 pm

pHz wrote: ... a better bet (IF they work with the audigy) is to grab the free generic ASIO drivers from asio4all (using these i can get the latency on my laptops USB soundcard down to 2msec at a push - certainly quick enough for drumming) ...

Well, can't comment on the KX drivers, but the Asio4All driver only allows latencies down to around 15ms on my notebook (which isn't a bad one to be honest) - all depends on some sort of hardware configuration it seems (I've actually seen those drivers working better on machines way cheaper than mine).
The bad thing with them however is that they introduce an unbearable recording offset for audio recordings (something around the lines of 500 samples, completely unusable for any sorts of audio recordings), so you either need to correct each and every recorded audio file manually or switch drivers around almost permanently.

... as for applying effects realtime i guess it depends on the signal routing of your host

Every VSTi supporting host allows using FX in realtime.

Dan Island · Post by **Dan Island** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:48 pm

I was working as low as 7 milliseconds with my Audigy using the drivers that cam with it. IMO the KX drivers did not sound as good as the Creative drivers and I had no problems at all.

SO i wouldn't recommend changing for latency alone especially if you have a money shortage.

pschelfh · Post by **pschelfh** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:54 pm

Same for me, I get as low as 5 msec with the Audigy ASIO drivers.

I think a latency up to 10 msec is fine for real time midi input.

Peter.

Equilibrium · Post by **Equilibrium** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:05 pm

Thanks for all the replies I'm considering what to do right now!

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:29 pm

get yerself an audiophile2496
i run one next to my audigy quite happily

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:37 pm

vurt wrote:get yerself an audiophile2496
i run one next to my audigy quite happily

While this is top advise, I'd recommend the Audiophile 2496 based on the TONS of people using it here, I'd say hold off and see if the Crapblaster will work ok at a low enough latency first. If it does withe kX drivers, then just keep movin' on to something different. Don't forget RMIV for drums from Linplug as another alternative. BFD is probably going to be your top choice though altogether, but it's also twice as much, and over 3 times as much from DR008. I believe there are stuff for drum triggers in DR008 built in now as well.

Devon

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:41 pm

problem with my audigy was not so much latency which with creatives drivers and my shitty skills at the keys was ok,i found that it tended to stutter a lot more when i added more instruments,i have more than enough power everywhere else and when i installed my audiophile,i now dont have any problems latency or stuttering on audio

but yeah work with what you got till you can afford it,but its a definite worthwile purchase,and pretty darn cheap too

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