Is this a borrowed chord?

[modernrockstar]

Hi!

I have some basic music theory knowledge - I know my maj, min, penta and blues scale and know how they are build around intervals and all that. Of course I know that this is very basic but luckily I'm looking forward to learn more when I got time too! Anyway...

If I have a chord progression in a song that look like this thru the whole song:

C (1bar) / F (1bar) / A#m (2bars) and then down again A#m (1bars) / F (1bar) / C (2bar)

Should I think of it as the key of C with a borrowed A#m chord or should I think of it as the key of A#m that start and ends with a C chord?

Thanks in advance,

[BertKoor]

I'd write Bb instead of A#. On the full scale the B is lowered and the A is not raised.

Further, more context is needed: how's the melody (if any) ? Because I can't picture Bb minor sounds good, but major does. The melody probably enlightens us what the full used scale here is.

[skipscada]

I think the minor sounds interesting, although stepping from the major to the minor (and back) sounds even better to me. Of course, these three chords (when the Bb is major) are the I-IV-V chords of F, so I feel the urge to resolve to F when I play it. I can easily imagine it working as descibed by OP, though, and of course that will be more interesting than just a standard progression.

For guitarists (up to a certain level?) it's perhaps easier to think in terms of A than Bb, what with chord shapes etc.

[modernrockstar]

Sorry guys, I made a misstake! The A#/Bb chord should be a MAJOR and not a minor as I said earlier. So we now have a F scale with other words.

But I do have some questions anyway:

- "I'd write Bb instead of A#. On the full scale the B is lowered and the A is not raised."
The full scale, do you mean the C or the chromatic scale? And why is that B lowered instead of being raised? I know a scale can't share two notes but since C consist of both A and B I am a little confused here - again, why lowered?

- Let's pretend that the A#/Bb chord is still a minor chord, should I be seeing it as a borrowed chord in the scale of C or how would you described it as?

- Last question. Okey, so now when we have a F scale with the progression V-I-IV. Is it common/accepted to the ears that a progression can look like this, not starting or ending on the I chord but the V instead? I think is sounds beautiful but I agree it sure have som tension and want to resolve to the F somewhere.

Thanks again (piano player here if that is to any help),

[BertKoor]

Sorry guys, I made a misstake! The A#/Bb chord should be a MAJOR and not a minor as I said earlier. So we now have a F scale with other words.

No, not nescessarily F. It can still be a C scale but then I suspect you're in Myxolydian mode (regular C Major scale with a B Flat) which is quite common.
But it depends... If your song gravitates stronger towards F than to C, it could be F ofcourse. Hard to tell without hearing it all.

[modernrockstar]

No, not nescessarily F. It can still be a C scale but then I suspect you're in Myxolydian mode (regular C Major scale with a B Flat) which is quite common.
But it depends... If your song gravitates stronger towards F than to C, it could be F ofcourse. Hard to tell without hearing it all.

Interesting, I don't know the different modes but I'll know it's time to learn them today eventually Since the progression starts and ends and gravitates stronger to the C, I think you may be right about it being in Myxolydian mode. So more or less, the song could actually be in both F AND C Myxolydian depending how you see and feel it?

[zethus909]

Hi!

I have some basic music theory knowledge - I know my maj, min, penta and blues scale and know how they are build around intervals and all that. Of course I know that this is very basic but luckily I'm looking forward to learn more when I got time too! Anyway...

If I have a chord progression in a song that look like this thru the whole song:

C (1bar) / F (1bar) / A#m (2bars) and then down again A#m (1bars) / F (1bar) / C (2bar)

Should I think of it as the key of C with a borrowed A#m chord or should I think of it as the key of A#m that start and ends with a C chord?

Thanks in advance,

neither

the Bbm is a sub chord, you are in F major....until you go from Bbm to F.....this is just

because you go to F from Bbm you kill any momentum...and you basically start from nothing again....so you fail to create a complete progression....

it should be C F Bbm, Bbm G (or Gm) C

you could make it work if you made the F actually an inversion....Bdim/F

there is a complete and satisfying progression

C F Bbm
Bbm Bdim/F C

or

C F Bbm
Bbm Bb C

or
C F Bbm
Bbm Gdim/Eb C

[stringtapper]

Hi!

I have some basic music theory knowledge - I know my maj, min, penta and blues scale and know how they are build around intervals and all that. Of course I know that this is very basic but luckily I'm looking forward to learn more when I got time too! Anyway...

If I have a chord progression in a song that look like this thru the whole song:

C (1bar) / F (1bar) / A#m (2bars) and then down again A#m (1bars) / F (1bar) / C (2bar)

Should I think of it as the key of C with a borrowed A#m chord or should I think of it as the key of A#m that start and ends with a C chord?

Thanks in advance,

neither

the Bbm is a sub chord, you are in F major....until you go from Bbm to F.....this is just

because you go to F from Bbm you kill any momentum...and you basically start from nothing again....so you fail to create a complete progression....

it should be C F Bbm, Bbm G (or Gm) C

you could make it work if you made the F actually an inversion....Bdim/F

there is a complete and satisfying progression

C F Bbm
Bbm Bdim/F C

or

C F Bbm
Bbm Bb C

or
C F Bbm
Bbm Gdim/Eb C

He said in a later post that it was supposed to be Bb major instead of minor.

So F major with typical non-functional pop harmony.

[stillshaded]

if you tonicized the F chord and then went to Bb minor it would sound like a iv. modal mixture yall.

Also Bb is just VII.. this is modal mixture also. Why did no one point this out?