KVR Audio

Foxedge · Post by **Foxedge** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:48 pm

Hi! As far as I know I don't need a soundcard unless I am not recording external sound sources that needs to be converted or translated into a digital audio signal. But I wanted to make sure, that my information is right.

So, when I only work with VSTs and only produce on software, do I need a soundcard or am I totally fine with the onboard one?

Edit: I by the way have a Steinberg UR22 interface for my mic. I just read that some people deactivate their onboard soundcards and let it all run through the audio interface. Does that make sense?

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:14 pm

No, you dont need one. But most people would recommend it. The drivers will generally be better, so your system will be able to do more audio work, at lower latencies, and (on Windows at least) tend to work with more audio hosts.

Plus the digital-to-audio conversion stage will generally be far superior to the 17cents worth of parts sitting unshielded in a cloud of RF noise on your motherboard.

However, depending on your listening environment (ie speakers&room/headphones) any improved sound quality might not be immediately perceivable, so other factors do come in to play, but being able to hear accurately what is happening with your audio is always beneficial. Onboard audio isn't really designed for that.

Something worth improving when you can, in other words.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:19 pm

Audio interfaces provide higher fidelity and much lower latency than onboard sound. But judge for yourself. If you don't notice any difference, then apparently onboard audio already is good enough. And maybe it is... surely now it's lots better than it was 15 years ago!

Foxedge · Post by **Foxedge** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:29 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:Plus the digital-to-audio conversion stage will generally be far superior to the 17cents worth of parts sitting unshielded in a cloud of RF noise on your motherboard.

I have studio headphones (HD 681 by superlux) and when I plug them in and just listen, I can't notice any noise, not even a bit. Maybe my board is well isolated there? I have a pretty decent gaming computer that I build up and probably the boards that are required for the modern cpus and gpus come with better onboard cards.

The latency of my vsts is nice too, I have made a test a couple of weeks ago, trying to hit the drum exactly to the metronome and it was all on point after I have set up the latency/buffer times.

So what would be left to argue for a soundcard? I thought of that it maybe makes the sound sound way better or let me hear frequencies that I usually couldn't perceive, but I guess it isn't like that unless I get studio monitors?

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:42 pm

I felt the same until I finally got a 24 bit asio interface. The difference in the sound quality and accuracy was massive.

Foxedge · Post by **Foxedge** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:53 pm

I just plugged my studio headphones into my audio interface and listen to my DAW or music with it.
I really can't tell for sure, I would say it sounds better than just using the onboard card but I'm afraid that I just have a placebo effect lol.

Foxedge · Post by **Foxedge** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:37 pm

I just ran several tests for an hour now, over songs and just designed some patches with complex delay or tried to listen to the most far details in my ambient stuff with both, the onboard and the audio interface plugin with my studio headphones.

To be honest, I can't tell that the audio interface delivers a more accurate or better soundsignal. Every last drop of delay or frequencies in the most far back were perceivable in both ways to use and both sounded great.

However, the input latency is way less.
FL Studio Asio: 2790smp
Yamaha Steinberg Asio: 712smp

But since I don't record external signals into my daw, I don't benefit from that yet.

So I think I don't need a soundcard for now, and if I someday get studio monitors, it will probably be enough to plug them into my Steinberg UR22, which by the way is also providing a 24 bit asio interface.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:49 pm

Foxedge wrote:So I think I don't need a soundcard for now

since youve already got one....?

my Steinberg UR22

t3toooo · Post by **t3toooo** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:53 pm

In most cases the standard motherboard output is fine,not so much the input.
The UR22 is a soundcard and has a good driver too,as whyterabbyt mentioned a good driver has it's benefits,in other words the driver is more optimized for the CPU load,less strain for the CPU than using the the FL Studio or Asio for all driver with the onboard output.
That alone would be enough for me to use a proper Asio device.

Foxedge · Post by **Foxedge** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:53 pm

Okay.. there is something I have overlooked. I just noticed that the Yamaha Steinberg Driver is only having 28ms delay on plugins, while the FL Studio driver is having 74ms and that is something that is pretty noticeable when playing and a big benefit.

So the plugins I use only on software side are processed way faster when being processed by my UR22 interface instead of the onboard soundcard. I really would not have expected that! But it makes sense since the UR22 as every audio interface is a soundcard. I just didn't know that I can let my DAW process through it instead of the one on the board. But yeah that also makes sense.. I am such a noob.

So I need a second usb cable or an usb hub to connect my midi-keyboard and the interface in the same time to the computer, since I've got only one cable that I used for both of them seperate. I guess that the midi-keyboards input latency is so fast that it won't block the benefit of the 28ms latency of the audio interface.

Foxedge · Post by **Foxedge** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:55 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:
Foxedge wrote:So I think I don't need a soundcard for now
since youve already got one....?

my Steinberg UR22

Ahaha you got me there

It all failed by the fact that I didn't know that I can let my UR22 process all my audio stuff on the digital side, though I really was aware of it being a soundcard. I thought it would only be able to translate analog external audio sources into digital. I bought it couple of months before I started with music last year and used it only for my Rode NT1A microphone.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:04 pm

Foxedge wrote: So the plugins I use only on software side are processed way faster when being processed by my UR22 interface instead of the onboard soundcard.

basically, the steinberg drivers are more efficient, meaning your system uses less of its time sending audio through the UR22. that means it has more time left to spend on your plugins, and is less busy overall under the same plugin load. you may even be able to run more of them.

So I need a second usb cable or an usb hub to connect my midi-keyboard and the interface in the same time to the computer, since I've got only one cable that I used for both of them seperate. I guess that the midi-keyboards input latency is so fast that it won't block the benefit of the 28ms latency of the audio interface.

If your computer has a spare USB port left after youve plugged in the keyboard, yes, get another cable, use it for your soundcard. If you have no spare ports, they should work fine together on a hub, but you'll probably need three cables to connect two devices via a hub (ie a third one to connect the hub to the PC)

btw Ive just realised you must have made your edit to your original post while I was first replying. I never noticed it till now, if I'd seen it I would have clarified about the UR22 earlier, sorry.

Foxedge · Post by **Foxedge** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:24 pm

Yeah I will get a hub once I run out of usb ports, at the moment I have enough of them!

And no problem with the edit, I've learned a lot today and that's all that matters

Funfact: I just discovered the possibility to playback my voice in FL-Studio in real time that I input through my Rode NT1A and it is so much fun to mess around with tons of reverb and effect plugins. I already enjoyed this as I was a teenager, back in the days I downloaded a software to playback the voice, added reverb to it and spend a lot of time making crazy noises or recordings with my cheap headset and audacity

Nowadays of course I can use it in a creative way, damn, I even can make a really good sounding dark choir now by myself. I am so glad I came across the hobby of music producing one year ago. It's really the greatest thing in life for me

Thank you for your help!

lobanov · Post by **lobanov** » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:52 pm

UR22 has MIDI input and output but it's DIN5 (standard for MIDI connections). You can use USB-midi cable, so no hub...

Foxedge · Post by **Foxedge** » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:08 am

Yeah I know, I connect my UR22 via midi-usb. It just has only one slot so I need another free usb slot for my midi-keyboard on my computer, that was where the hub thing came to my mind (for the future).

Soundcard necessary for digital production only?