KVR Audio

Muziksculp · Post by **Muziksculp** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:06 pm

Hi,

I'm curious to know if adding Reason 9 would benefit me any way, if I use a traditional DAW such as Cubase, or Studio One ?

i.e. is it worth learning Reason ?

Rewiring Reason to my DAW worth the extra work ? or just using it in standalone (worth it if I already use a Traditional DAW) ?

Bottom line, should I just ignore Reason, or is it worth looking further into what it offers as an additional tool to my traditional VST capable DAW (Cubase, Studio One, ...) ?

Your thoughts/feedback would be interesting, and helpful.

Thanks,
Muziksculp

stillshaded · Post by **stillshaded** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:12 pm

It's kind of cool for this, but I think it's not worth the hassle nowadays.

The very best plugins are all vst's anyways. Geist 2, Diva, dune2, tremor, the glue, etc.

I say just buy these. The only thing that it offers that's pretty unique is the cv stuff. If you're really into that it might be worth it.

But all the extra routing and stuff would make it too much of a pain IMO. Workflow makes the biggest difference in my output quality.

Muziksculp · Post by **Muziksculp** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:22 pm

stillshaded wrote:It's kind of cool for this, but I think it's not worth the hassle nowadays.

The very best plugins are all vst's anyways. Geist 2, Diva, dune2, tremor, the glue, etc.

I say just buy these. The only thing that it offers that's pretty unique is the cv stuff. If you're really into that it might be worth it.

But all the extra routing and stuff would make it too much of a pain IMO. Workflow makes the biggest difference in my output quality.

That was my initial impression about it. (Just don't bother with Reason). and I'm not into cv stuff. So, I am guessing there is nothing I will gain by having Reason if I already use a traditional DAW (Cubase/Studio One).

So... I should just ignore it.

starflakeprj · Post by **starflakeprj** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:22 pm

You can call me crazy, cause I probably am

But I think, whatever rocks your boat creatively, is worth spending money on. I might have taken it too far myself, now owning licenses for Studio One v3, Bitwig Studio, Renoise, Reason and Reaper (well, waiting for the license transfer for the Reaper). I also spend too much during the end of summer sale in the Propellerhead shop. I have more than 100 VST instruments only, have not counted the VST effects. It's an expensive hobby, though fun, just wish I would produce more (which can be a problem when you have too much stuff of course).

But back to Reason. I love the Combinator (where you combine instruments and effects, and save them as presets), and also the new Players (Chords & Scales, Echo and Dual Arpeggiator), these are really creative tools, and fun to use. And I also like the possibilities using the "CV stuff". If you are not into any of these stuff, I guess Reason is not for you. It's the most stable DAW I have been working with though, ever. But I guess in most cases, regarding instability, it's all about the plugins.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:32 pm

I got it recently, I tend to think of it more as a complex modular instrument with the capability to also record and sequence, it's very stable, low CPU, and the sequencer is fantastic. I love the combinator and also appreciate the flawless automation recording. It's also really quick for recording from my hardware, I'm tending to do it more in Reason now because it's just glitch free and so easy to set up - great timestretch and Melodynish device too. Only thing I don't like is the mixer which looks and feels tacked on and is over complicated but so far I've been able to ignore it anyway.

Scales is a bit disappointing as it doesn't come with many scales.

Muziksculp · Post by **Muziksculp** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:33 pm

Studio One Pro v3 offers Multi Instruments feature, and Extended Effects Chains. This is imho. done faster, and easier than the way Reason does it via the Combinator, which I think is more convoluted of a process compared to the way Studio One does it.

Muziksculp · Post by **Muziksculp** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:35 pm

aMUSEd wrote:I got it recently, I tend to think of it more as a complex modular instrument with the capability to also record and sequence, it's very stable. low CPU, and the sequencer is fantastic. I love the combinator and also appreciate the flawless automation recoding. Only thing I don't like is the mixer which looks and feels tacked on and is over complicated but so far I've been able to ignore it anyway.

Do you use another traditional (VST capable) DAW with Reason ? or is Reason your first DAW ?

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:36 pm

It's an alternative, I have several others. Not interested in Rewire either.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:37 pm

Muziksculp wrote:Studio One Pro v3 offers Multi Instruments feature, and Extended Effects Chains. This is imho. done faster, and easier than the way Reason does it via the Combinator, which I think is more convoluted of a process compared to the way Studio One does it.

Not as deep as combinator though. The thing is when you get into the back and use the cv routing, you can modulate so much more and make more complex connections than in just a chainer type device like in S1.

Muziksculp · Post by **Muziksculp** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:39 pm

aMUSEd wrote:It's an alternative, I have several others. Not interested in Rewire either.

Cool !

That's another way to look at Reason. It is a unique DAW as a standalone.

Yes, very stable, and good for experimenting, and getting ideas as well. but I can do that with other DAWs, so still not sure it is worth putting the time to learn Reason 9 . (which I already have).

I guess putting some time to discover it, and learning it is not a bad idea ? or ... ?

Muziksculp · Post by **Muziksculp** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:43 pm

aMUSEd wrote:
Muziksculp wrote:Studio One Pro v3 offers Multi Instruments feature, and Extended Effects Chains. This is imho. done faster, and easier than the way Reason does it via the Combinator, which I think is more convoluted of a process compared to the way Studio One does it.
Not as deep as combinator though. The thing is when you get into the back and use the cv routing, you can modulate so much more and make more complex connections than in just a chainer type device like in S1.

Interesting. So, would you recommend I start using, and learning Reason 9 as an alternative DAW that I can view as a creative tool for sound design, and/or song writing ?

starflakeprj · Post by **starflakeprj** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:45 pm

Muziksculp wrote:Studio One Pro v3 offers Multi Instruments feature, and Extended Effects Chains. This is imho. done faster, and easier than the way Reason does it via the Combinator, which I think is more convoluted of a process compared to the way Studio One does it.

I know this, but I think you can do way more in the Combinator with the CV features than you can do with the multi instruments and extended effects. In Studio One (or with VSTs in general) you can only make connection in parallell or serial, the possibilities are almost endless when using the CV features in Reason.

Also, I think the CPU handling in Studio One is among the worst I have seen, only FL Studio are managing multi-threading worse than Studio One.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:53 pm

Muziksculp wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:
Muziksculp wrote:Studio One Pro v3 offers Multi Instruments feature, and Extended Effects Chains. This is imho. done faster, and easier than the way Reason does it via the Combinator, which I think is more convoluted of a process compared to the way Studio One does it.
Not as deep as combinator though. The thing is when you get into the back and use the cv routing, you can modulate so much more and make more complex connections than in just a chainer type device like in S1.
Interesting. So, would you recommend I start using, and learning Reason 9 as an alternative DAW that I can view as a creative tool for sound design, and/or song writing ?

That's certainly how I use it. But also as a recorder for my hardware synths/guitar.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:22 pm

stillshaded wrote:It's kind of cool for this, but I think it's not worth the hassle nowadays.

The very best plugins are all vst's anyways. Geist 2, Diva, dune2, tremor, the glue, etc.

I say just buy these. The only thing that it offers that's pretty unique is the cv stuff. If you're really into that it might be worth it.

But all the extra routing and stuff would make it too much of a pain IMO. Workflow makes the biggest difference in my output quality.

Yes. IMO, there's things which are painstakingly hard to do in Reason, which are dead easy, if you simply have it built into your VST host, or as a plugin. There's not even a ping pong mode in the Reason delays, instead you have to get modular, with LFO's, to do it, any you can't even do all things you'd expect from a ping pong delay. None of the included synth devices having stereo oscillators, or allowing for stereo spread for unison, to name another thing. I don't think Reason has anywhere near as equally quality synth devies, built in, or as RE's either IMO. Not to talk about that the Reason sequencer is lacking, and the program is getting more and more cluttered with every version, with 5 different ways of doing something. I used to own Reason, and i though more than once to buy it again, but, nah. Rationality always wins here, because i just see too many disadvantages.

tibah · Post by **tibah** » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:27 pm

Reason probably doesn't offer much to someone that is used to another DAW, but I want to highlight some things that I admire about Reason.

Sequencer track lanes. You can have several lanes for one instrument, which is great for layering up chords or creating a chord progression and some melody stuff on top, in separated clips. I also use it to split changes visually, by putting them onto their own lanes, for better overview when arranging. You might as well use one lane and color things differently of course. The same can be accomplished in Bitwig with putting an instrument on a group track and then having several instrument tracks in that group track.

Automation. Works also in clips that can be stretched, cut and work-flow wise, better duplicated or copied than I feel some other DAWs do it. This is again more a "used to" thing.

Some devices come to mind, but I wouldn't even say they are good because nothing comes close, but also rather the habit of using them for more than a decade. Redrum, Scream4, OctoREX, Malström. Probably not worth for someone out of the park to invest in Reason for those, but it could be a thing.

Last but not least, the rack itself. Not so much for CV and cables, but for overview and organization. Yes, things can get messy sometimes, but in the same time, everything has a "place", compared to opening a plug-in window to access it, which today is also less of an issue since some DAWs offer ways to alter parameters, without opening the UI, via some generic control.

Trial it. It works 30 days, including save and export, before it turns into demo mode.

Is Reason 9 useful to have, if I use a Traditional DAW (Cubase, S1, ..etc) ?