MIX CHALLENGE - MC27 November 2016 - Winners announced

[Compyfox]

Let's address the elephant in the room, shall we?

You can take the info "submitted after the deadline" for this Mix Challenge as official warning for the time being, so no need to feel "I'm disqualified" or "now I have to withdraw my track".

Learn from it, improve on it, move on.




But let's be honest for a moment:

The Challenge has rules for a reason. Even with a crashing and faulty rig, 21 days should be plenty of time to get a track edited and out of the door. Time you can easily work against your rig issues. The "can't get a PSU on Sunday" is therefore no excuse - my rig also crashed during for MC26, and I still made it in time including added documentary!. If you're not making it in time, then not (happened for a couple of Mix Round 2's so far).

Imagine this being a fully automated challenge on a different page. Once the timer has run out, and you didn't submit your track by the time the Challenge/Competition ends - you've lost. That simple.

Now you could argument with the fact "but, time zones!". However, as of MC25, we have a new webpage with a global timer that helps solve the question "do I still have time" (I created this thing on purpose, and invested a lot of time so that it works "server time" based, not "browser time"). It's also fine if you want to hold out and submit at the final day (due to: reasons). But If that timer has reached 00:00:00:00 days, the Challenge is over. Even if I post a couple of hours later and am usually fine with people sneaking in a mix (I'm only human myself, and also need sleep). But this is sadly going a bit out of hand lately, and is unfair to all other participants who do submit in time (with their own time constraints).

In case of the Mix Challenge, we simulate a "client to business" relationship with very, very, very laid back rules. Usually you have a way shorter turnaround time (think 3 days to 5 days absolute max). Miss that deadline, or funk up otherwise, and your deal has vanished. No second chances.



So I'll mention this right off the bat:

I will cut you folks some slack with this Challenge. And ultimately, the "client" of MC27 decides if your track still counts during the evaluation or not.

But in future challenges - sorry to tighten the thumbscrews: everything that will be submitted after the known (and now easily checkable) deadline, will be disqualified.

[Davias]

It's the 22nd November 7:20am. The first round of the Mix Challenge has officially ended.

We have 13 mixes, 4 of them being submitted hours after the deadline (Davias, Pitta, shoma and Zar9). Please take note of the rules regarding the challenge deadlines, even if I post later(!)


As usual, please check your links for functionality, update your posts with documentation (or not), and please watch this spot

I planed to put finishing touches till the last minute (as I usually do ^^), but these times I'm very tired and I simply felt asleep for 7 hours !! (without even knowing it, I almost burned my sofa :O) :p I woke up it was 00:53, I decided to render and upload anyway cause I was feeling bad that all my work was done for nothing, I'm very sorry about it...

Edit : I wrote this message after Compyfox's big post and I'll agree with his arguments. but I had to upload anyway, for the work not being lost in the Void

[Compyfox]

Your work is appreciated, and I'm sure you've learned from the experience.

[shoma]

Compyfox.....I absolutely understand your point and I have accepted the rules when I took the decision to participate in this contest. I wouldn't be too angry if my mix could not take part for the reasons you've mentioned...all my anger is more directed to my computer, which was very reliable so far ...til yesterday. I was nearly ready with the mix on early afternoon, when suddenly it started to annoy me... f*** it

Things will get better next time

[Compyfox]

A hint from my side... don't work "just in time" (read: until the last minute). Have a suitable buffer before the deadline runs out. You never know when things go awry (I can speak from experience as well)

[slacker]

Ok, firstly thanks everyone for taking the time to provide a mix, it's been a really interesting process listening to them all and I've spent the last couple of days listening in a number of settings; on my studio monitors, in the car, headphones, bluetooth speakers etc and volume matching as necessary.

Let me say, making a decision has been tough. I'd consider myself more of a songwriter than an audio engineer, so this is going to be a real "client" experience and if I miss some of the subtleties of what you've done in my feedback, then apologies.

My feedback is also obviously going to be subjective. For me, what has been interesting is the extent to which you have been able to articulate the vision I had for the song in my head from the audio alone.

I've got some general observations and points on the track and then I'll provide some specific feedback on each mix.

Overall, having listened to the different mixes, a number of things stand out for me in terms of my expectations.

1. The descending pad that runs through the song was only ever there for atmosphere. I was aiming for one of those pads that you only notice it was there when it is removed from the mix. I think it is too repetitive to be mixed too high which should allow the acoustic guitars or bass to be the centre of attention at certain points in the song.

2. I was looking for both a deep kick and bass sound. Yes, I know that's conterintuitive in the context of the mix, but I want both to have some weight. In many ways, I think the bass should drive the song, particularly in the introduction, the break after chorus 1 and the lead in to the last chorus.

3. The choruses needed to "pop out". In my head, this was a mix that builds and builds. All the guitars were there for a reason.

4. I think there is an arrangement "mistake" and the higher backing vocals in chorus 1 might be better not being used or used in chorus 2 to help build the mix as above.

5. Handling my daughters vocals - I felt that this was a challenge, as they weren't brilliantly recorded or sung, so how this was handled sympathetically was important.

Ok, so that will give you some idea of where my thoughts are heading and you can probably start to consider your own mixes and the extent to which you feel you met my ideas.

So, here's some additional individual feedback and my picks for the next round.

Photonic

I liked this mix. I felt that the kick, bass and snare worked well together. Referring back to my comments above, the pad is too high and I felt the hi-hat in the into could come down a notch. The mix builds nicely and I liked the delays that you had added (I think) in verse 2. Perhaps it's down to the arrangement, but I had a sense in the first verse of the tracks being rather separate - perhaps some more reverb in that section to blend them together? I also wondered whether the bass could be given a bit more "bite" in the break after the first chorus to drive that section on. The same applies at the lead into the last chorus. I felt the choruses were mixed well and I thought you handled the vocals well at the end - for example the synth line that echoes the vocal line sat well. My only other observation was that I wondered if the instruments playing the descending part in verse 3 could stand coming down a notch. Good work though, as I said, I liked it.

Vasdim

I thought there were some nice things going on in this mix and I liked the overall feel you went for. I felt the kick and the snare worked well together, although I seemed to lose the kick in the mix from time to time. I felt the bass could cut through the mix slightly better - perhaps it needed some more top end? I Also felt that the snare leapt out on occassions and that the strings could have been blended in slightly more. I thought you handled my daughters vocals well and I liked the treatment that you gave to them. My big issue with the mix though was with the choruses; they didn't seem to build from the verse for me and I felt that this was because the guitars were too low in the mix. As a result, I felt the song lost energy which was a shame.

DaveMcIsaac

There was a lot to like with this mix. I felt it had a "fuller" and slightly less "dark" treatment in comparison to some of the others. I liked the overall feel a lot and in particular I though the choruses were handled well, especially the treatment of the guitars which created the kind of sound I had in my head. I thought the vocals at the end worked well and were nicely balanced and that in the main all the instruments sat nicely and created the feel of a cohesive whole. In terms of things that I wondered whether they could be slightly different. I liked the bass, but would have liked a bit more presence if possible? I liked the sizzle on the ride in verse 2, but wondered if that could come down just a notch? There also seemed like a strange sustain on the guitars at the end of chorus 2 which I wondered if it could be faded out? I'd like the bass a little louder at the start of the chorus with the girls vocals, so that it's the bass driving that section not the shaker. I also think that the descending instrument parts in verse 3 could come down a shade...I hope that makes sense. Again though, another mix that I really liked.

Nightpolymath

I liked elements of this mix, but overall it didn't work for me. Sorry. I liked the solid low end thump that you got from the kick, however it seemed to completely dominate the mix to me. The combination of kick and snare in verse 1 for example, completely dominated the acoustic guitar. I liked the treatment of the vocals though which was very nice and the balance with the backing vocals was good. I also thought other elements of the mix sat well; the rhodes for example. However, as with some of the other mixes I didn't feel that the choruses, particularly the first one were balanced correctly - the guitars were too low. As per my comments at the start, I'd also want to bring the pad down and look at the bass at the start of the last chorus and how it sits with the girl's vocal which I felt was slightly too present when it came in.

thiagoam88

Again, lots to like with this mix. I thought the kick and snare balanced well, although I felt the hi hat in the intro was slightly too harsh somehow? I liked the tone that you'd got with the bass, but as with some of my other comments above, a little more bite in the tone in parts might be helpful. I liked the way that you handled the choruses - although again in line with my opening comments about the arrangement, I'd lose the higher backing vocals in chorus 1 - either all together or trying them in chorus 2. I liked the way that the acoustic guitars had been mixed and felt that you could hear them in the chorus better than in some mixes. I did think that the main vocals might be getting slightly lost in verse 2 though. I thought the vocals at the end were handled well, but wondered about getting slightly more warmth into the girls vocals. I also thought there was a good sense of stereo width, but if it was possible to get the guitars even fuller in the choruses, that might be good.

Michaeltn86

This was an interesting mix as you'd tried to do some different things, some of which I thought worked, others I didn't. I liked the fact that you'd taken the synth line that echoed the vocal line from the chorus and used it in the intro, I thought that worked well. There were also some interesting effects that almost sounded like breathing? I thought that was interesting too. I think that you'd filtered the kick in the intro, which I was less keen on and the hi hats seemed to drop in and out, which seemed to make them really leap out at some points |also thought that the rhodes got a bit lost in verse 1. As far as some of my other observations are concerned, I wasn't keen on the revised ending but I likedthe sound of the vocals and felt that the toms cut through well on this mix too - you seemed to have a good sense of the room on them. As ever, I'd like a bit more out of the guitars on the earlier choruses too. Probably my main problem with this mix though was that I wasn't sure about the sound of the main acoustic guitar parts - they seemed to have an almost piezo quality about them, which may be down to my poor recording, but wasn't there in some of the other mixes. I enjoyed listening to it, all the same.

jhkennedy5

Another nice mix which I thought worked well. I thought the kick, bass, snare and hi hat balance worked well. I liked the overall feel of the mix and the way you handled the vocals and thought the choruses particularly the first two were good. By the time I got to the end, I wondered whether chorus 3 was a bit flat in comparison, but that may be my ears. I liked the fact that you had used one of the strummed acoustic guitar parts in verse 2 but wondered whether the strings were slightly too separate and on top of the mix - could they be blended in a touch more? I also wondered whether the Rhodes could be panned somewhere to give a greater space in the mix? In terms of other changes - in line with my opening comments, the pad needs to come down a touch and I'd look again at the instrument balance in verse 3. I also think the tambourine could come down very slightly in chorus 3. I liked the fact that you ended on the wind, but it needs a fade out, otherwise it's a sudden end. Good stuff though!

Trannin

I really liked the bass on this mix and felt that the way that it worked with the drums and the toms in particular during the chorus was good. I thought the toms cut through more than on some of the mixes. However, this is probably where as the client, I want to have my cake and eat it, because it seemed to be at the expense of the guitars, particularly in choruses 2 and 3. I liked the handling of the first chorus and thought that the use of the acoustic guitars which were more prominent than in some mixes was good. I felt the others were slightly lacking though and the mix didn't quite build. That said, there was lots of stuff that I liked, the vocals were handled nicely and the strings and rhodes blended well. There also seemed to be more of a sense of groove with this mix? I'm not sure whether you'd done anything or again, if I'm hearing things?

erictracks

Another mix that I thought worked well overall. My first observation though is one that you probably planted yourself - I'm not completely sure about the sound of the kick drum. Does it sound slightly flabby?
I thought it was an interesting mix though as it comes across as quite clean. I liked the bass and the toms, although I think you've left them quite dry? I felt that the snare was slightly high towards the start of the song though. I thought the vocals were handled nicely, although I thought there may be slightly too much reverb on the main vocal. I liked the level of the harmonies in verse 2 - although could you lower them on the word "wrong" they aren't sung that well and there is a tone to that word that will grate with me! I liked the intensity to the guitars when they come in during chorus 3 but that energy seems to disappear - it may be the arrangement...I also thought you handled the girls vocals sympathetically too. Nice.

Par9 zalpov

There's an energy about this mix that I like a lot. I think the hi hat is too high in the mix though at the start - it tends to leap out, particularly on small speakers. I think the guitars have been handled well in the choruses which contributes to that sense of energy along with the toms - it's the kind of feel that I had in my head. The holy grail would be to get a clearer sense of the bass in there as well though - if that's even possible. I wasn't sure whether I felt the reverb on the main vocal was slightly overdone, I'd be interested to see what it was like slightly drier. Other than that, I liked the toms and the snare and felt that the rhodes and strings worked well. I also thought that the girls vocals were handled ok. In terms of other changes, as with others, I'd lose the harmony vocals in chorus 1 and look at the instrument balance of the descending parts in verse 3 against the vocal. The version you rendered also cuts out abruptly at the end. Lastly, there seemed to be something nice going on in the background of the last chorus. I'm not sure what it was or whether I put it there, but I liked it!

Davias

I liked the way that this mix builds. I felt that there was a good balance between the drums and bass and I liked the overall tones of kick, snare and bass. I think there are parts where the bass level could come up to help drive the song forward though i.e. the break after the first chorus and the lead into the last chorus. I liked to hear the strummed acoustic part in verse 2 and the acoustic guitars more prominent in chorus 1 and eletric from there on in. I wasn't sure about the level of the rhodes in verse 1 or it's panning. I also think as with others that the instrument levels in verse 3 need to come down a notch. In the main I thought that the girls vocals are handled nicely, although there is the odd word that leaps out at you so it might need some slight additional automation. Overall, I liked the mix though and thought it worked well.

Pitta

Ok, this was a really interesting mix, which divided the jury. That's interesting, given that the jury only comprises me! This hinges on the drum pattern that you've come up with for the mix. I like it and I like the feel that it imparts to the song. My problem though is that I don't think it fits with the song lyrics and the fact that it's about a brother murdering his sister. But I still kind of like it. If pushed though I'm coming down on the "it doesn't fit with the song" side of things. Sorry. This was enhanced by the lack of guitars in the chorus for example. There was some other really nice touches in the mix though including the treatment of the vocals and the blending of things I like the strings, and I thought you handled the balance between the instruments and vocal in verse 3 as well as anybody.

Shoma

I liked this mix overall and thought there was some good elements. I thought that your handling of the girls vocal was very good and worked well.I also generally liked the balance of the instruments and tone of the kick, snare etc. As with others, I think the level of the pad needs to come down in the intro and other parts where it's prominent - the break at the end of verse 1 for example. I liked the synth line that echoes the vocal line in the chorus being prominent but felt it was slightly too high. I also wasn't sure about the placement of the Rhodes in verse 1. A nice mix though.

Ok, hopefully those comments make some sense. As I said, it has been a hard process and I appreciate all the time that everyone has put in. But I've had to have a cut off somewhere so in terms of who I think should go through to round 2, I'm going to go with the following in no particular order:

Dave McIsaac
Photonic
Davias
Par9 zalpov
erictracks
thiagoam88
jhkennedy5


Thanks!

Slacker

[Compyfox]

All right, thank you for the feedback on the productions, Slacker.

Let's kick off Mix Round 2 - which will end next Wednesday, 30-11-2016, 11:59pm CET/GMT+1


The following participants go into Round 2 (alphabetical order)

• Dave McIsaac
• Davias
• erictracks
• jhkennedy5
• Par9 zalpov
• Photonic
• thiagoam88

Thank you for your participation, and good luck to the contestants for Round 2

[Trannin]

Hello,

Thank you very much for your feedback, Slacker. I am glad there are many elements in my mix you enjoyed. All in all, it was much fun to mix this song and I’ve learned a lot during the whole process. That’s what matters!

It’s the first time I take part in a KVR Mix Challenge and I am eager to mix again in the next ones.

Congratulations to everybody and good luck for those that go to Round 2!

[michaeltn86]

Hi Slacker thank u very much for ur feedback!

There were also some interesting effects that almost sounded like breathing? that's ur daughter vocal very compressed with delay
piezo quality -> not about the recording, I high passed and low passed very hardly to try to give a lo-fi quality but it seems I failed haha
ur other comments -> Generally, I can't concentrate on more than 3-4 things, so I tried to made them then come and go, as I thought the arrangement was very complex (many instruments doing different things). Though u could hear and concentrate more on the toms, it seems like a failure haha.

I also read ur comments, very interesting comments. I noticed u heard in different sources and level matched. How did u level matched them (I'm far from an expert but I tried to do the same by matching lufs match with logic metering)? If possible, please advise.

Hi compyfox, here are three suggestions of mine for the next challenge:

1) if there is a singer, please add lyrics in the instructions (though I understand English, it's not my native language and I noticed several non-native speakers too from kvr profiles)

2) now that mix challenge has a website, it would be very interesting if someone could compile and level match according to some standards every month. It'll help the participants and the client to be more self conscious. I don't understand much about level and it seems a very deep hole to dig, and from the posts I read from you, you're very knowledgable. Of course, if u can, as it'll demand time and effort.

3) it'd be nice if participants could comments or share mix comments about the others (optional).

Thanks again and good luck for the rest. it's a very cool song. Cheers

[slacker]

Hi Michaeltn86,

That's interesting re: the effect you created with my daughter's vocal. A very cool idea.

As far as the arrangement is concerned, you could be right and there may be too many parts but I can never stop myself and I think it works!?

I'm no expert re: level matching, I'm sure there's other more expert here. I just used studio one to make sure the average levels and peaks were broadly the same to try and avoid falling for the loudest mix being best routine...

Thanks again for taking the time to mix the song, I appreciate it!

Slacker

[shoma]

Hi Slacker,

thanks for your honest words about my mix. I liked the song very much and had a lot of fun during mixing. In the end it's always trial'n'error to achieve, what the client wants to hear without knowing him and his taste in music and/or sound. Anyways...I was very happy that you took the time to listen the mix, even though I delivered it much too late! Thanks again!

Greets, Shoma

[michaeltn86]

at 2:52
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8njiet129b6oz ... s.mp3?dl=0

this is Davia's, but u can hear her heavy breathing. Compress a lot, automate, delay, automate delay :] Not very creative but not a bad one haha cheers

[jhkennedy5]

Links to my round 2 submission below. I tried to address all feedback (the detailed feedback is greatly appreciated!!).

WAV: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/896 ... ennedy.wav
MP3: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/896 ... ennedy.mp3

I really enjoyed mixing this excellent, haunting song. Thanks!!

[photonic]

Hi Slacker,

Thank you to choose me for the second round. And thanx for your detailed and reasonable comments. I modified the mix according your comments. I have to say that I like the mix much more now. Your comments gave the mix more dynamic.

MP3: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/717 ... %20Rd2.mp3
WAV: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/717 ... %20Rd2.wav

Good luck to everyone!

[Par9 Zalpov]

Subject: MIX CHALLENGE - MC27 November 2016 - Mix Round 2 until 30-11-2016, 11:59pm CET/GMT+1

Par9 zalpov

There's an energy about this mix that I like a lot. I think the hi hat is too high in the mix though at the start - it tends to leap out, particularly on small speakers. I think the guitars have been handled well in the choruses which contributes to that sense of energy along with the toms - it's the kind of feel that I had in my head. The holy grail would be to get a clearer sense of the bass in there as well though - if that's even possible. I wasn't sure whether I felt the reverb on the main vocal was slightly overdone, I'd be interested to see what it was like slightly drier. Other than that, I liked the toms and the snare and felt that the rhodes and strings worked well. I also thought that the girls vocals were handled ok. In terms of other changes, as with others, I'd lose the harmony vocals in chorus 1 and look at the instrument balance of the descending parts in verse 3 against the vocal. The version you rendered also cuts out abruptly at the end. Lastly, there seemed to be something nice going on in the background of the last chorus. I'm not sure what it was or whether I put it there, but I liked it!

Slacker

Thank you for your detailed and fair feedback and agree almost with everything.
I haven't watched end of that track that cuts out abruptly coz mix has been renderd in a hurry and will be re-rendered with smooth fade-out(link will posted here soon). i have not enought time for mixing coz at last moment - 48 hours before deadline my equipment has gone crazy. after finishing all that problems with it and when OS was reinstalled there was not a lot of time for finishing mix but i worked really hard in the last few hours

also thank you for a good song, i had fun to work with it!