Converting midi to audio

[Hink]

OK at another forum I am having a disscussion about midi. My question and poll is simple. Can you convert midi to audio? I say you are not converting midi to audio, conversion is not accurate. You are rendering, playing or mixing...but you're not converting IMHO.

[Spe3D]

I say you are not converting midi to audio, conversion is not accurate. You are rendering, playing or mixing...but you're not converting IMHO.

Yes you can! But midi is just code to trigger something else. So anything else (like soundfonts) audio compositor

Best regards,

Spe3d

:O)

Noun: conversion
1. An event that results in a transformation
2. A change in the units or form of an expression
3. A successful free throw or try for point after a touchdown
4. A spiritual enlightenment causing a person to lead a new life
5. (psychiatry) a defense mechanism represses emotional conflicts which are then converted into physical symptoms that have no organic basis
6. Interchange of subject and predicate of a proposition
7. Act of exchanging one type of money or security for another
8. The act of changing from one use or function or purpose to another

[Hink]

Hi Spe3d, but is that converting? Converting to me means having one thing and changing it to another, but you're not changing the midi, it stays the same you just use it to produce the product, like sound, control changes and program changes. So when you done you have two bi-products, the midi file and the results of the midi file. But the midi file is still a midi file, it hasn't been converted into anything.

[Spe3D]

Hi! Hink

I see your point - But I agree with mine more to me it make sense that way. It's a fine line though

Best regards,

Spe3d

:O)

[Hink]

ahh but your defination holds the answer, the word transform. If I take a buck and buy a box of sugar have I transformed it to sugar?

Transform

TRANSITIVE VERB: 1. To change markedly the appearance or form of: “A thick, fibrous fog had transformed the trees into ghosts and the streetlights into soft, haloed moons” (David Michael Kaplan).
2. To change the nature, function, or condition of; convert. See synonyms at convert.
3. Mathematics To subject to a transformation.
4. Electricity To subject to the action of a transformer.
5. Genetics To subject (a cell) to transformation.

I'll drop you an email this week spe3d we haven't spoken much lately...
[/b]

[scam_artist]

I said "Conversion is not an accurate term"... recording is though

You are just recording the output of whatever the midi is triggering... that is what some would call "converting midi to audio"

[TrekStar]

you can't convert them into each other because they are two totally different things. you can record a midi song. ok. but it is no conversion. I also don't say: I convert myself into a photo. but I can take a photo from me.

in regular intervals this question is asked: how can I convert midi to audio. but it is also because people enjoy the usage foreign words. just like the actual versusmania

[scam_artist]

you can't convert them into each other because they are two totally different things. you can record a midi song. ok. but it is no conversion. I also don't say: I convert myself into a photo. but I can take a photo from me.

in regular intervals this question is asked: how can I convert midi to audio. but it is also because people enjoy the usage foreign words. just like the actual versusmania

I blame crappy sound cards with onboard sound for the misconceptions many of the general public have about midi!

They go to website, download and play a midi file, and think "that's what midi sounds like!". So they don't realise midi doesn't actually sound like anything until it's sent to a sound source, and then also think people who make music using midi make "crappy ring tones" Oh dear oh dear, I guess we all learnt that midi wasn't like that once. Just seems a LONG time ago

[Sascha Franck]

Pardon me, but what a silly question is this???
MIDI is playback data while audio (at least to a certain extent) is "real" data (read: listenable data).

The question just doesn't make any sense at all.
You can record (or render) MIDI to audio (obviously), but that's about it, you allways need something to playback your MIDI data (no matter in which way, even audio compositor does it that way, it renders something based on the patches you feed it with).

[ambe]

They go to website, download and play a midi file, and think "that's what midi sounds like!". So they don't realise midi doesn't actually sound like anything until it's sent to a sound source, and then also think people who make music using midi make "crappy ring tones" Oh dear oh dear, I guess we all learnt that midi wasn't like that once. Just seems a LONG time ago

back in the days of dos games though there was some good stuff comming out of general midi files. click here for an example. although, it dosen't really sound any good anymore unless you have onboard fm soundchip (ala soundblaster pro / 16)

[amoebe]

Of course you can convert midi into audio. Save the midifile, load it into a sampler as raw audio, Play (but not too loud!)

[Sascha Franck]

After reading this thread again I'm not sure whether the orignal poster indeed knows what MIDI data is (as in opposite to audio).

So, in short:
MIDI data is "playback" or "steering" data, nothing else, it doesn't contain any (well, depending on what you're using to playback MIDI data it *might* contain some) information about what the final result coming out of your speakers will sound like.
Basically it's like a "virtual player". You just tell your player something like "hit note C1 at beat 1, bar 1" and it will do so. This information will them be passed on to the sound module of your choice.
Apart from that MIDI files may carry a bit more of information, such as MIDI channel data, program change data, tempo data, pitchbend, sustain and further controller data.
But this still doesn't say much about the sound that will perhaps please your ear in the end.
Regarding that it's totally up to your sound module.

To have things a bit more "commonized", further standards, based on "raw" MIDI were invented, such as General MIDI (GM) or even Rolands GS or Yamahas XG standards.
Devices following these standards are more or less (I'd say less...) compatible between each other.
The additional information being followed by these standards in general were consistent patch layouts.
So, if you feed a GM compatible device with program change 33 you can be sure that you will listen to some acoustic bass of some sorts.

Still, this doesn't say anything about the quality of that acoustic bass. It's again all up to the module you're feeding your GMIDI file into.
That might be the reason why even a brilliantly programmed MIDI file might sound like a piece of shit when being played back by your SBLive card which just has the 2MBGM set loaded which comes with it.

If you want to listen to the "real" quality of MIDI files (in case there's any quality...) you will therefor need a GM/GS/XG module with more or less high quality sounds, still following the GM standard.
Roland and Yamaha are well known for their modules.
But still (yes, still), a well programmed MIDI file being done on Yamaha equipment might sound shit when being played back to some Roland module - let alone being played back through some cheapish sounding SBLive 2MB set.

So, as said in my previous post, it all depends what you use to feed the MIDI file into.

With audio things are WAY less complicated as the only difference in sound will be the quality of your output converters, amplifiers and speakers (or headphones). Audio is more like an "absolute" value.
That's why people post MP3s instead of MIDI files... (ah well, some sounds don't even exist in MIDI land - ever heard a voice in a MIDI file?)´.

And finally that's why you would have to render/record your MIDI data to audio (in whatever way) to make sure other people will listen to the same results as you.

[scam_artist]

back in the days of dos games though there was some good stuff comming out of general midi files. click here for an example. although, it dosen't really sound any good anymore unless you have onboard fm soundchip (ala soundblaster pro / 16)

sorry to threadjack...
i remember a game called StarControl2 which had wicked music, I think it was mod music (which I never quite knew what that was)...

[Hink]

After reading this thread again I'm not sure whether the orignal poster indeed knows what MIDI data is (as in opposite to audio).

So, in short:
MIDI data is "playback" or "steering" data, nothing else, it doesn't contain any (well, depending on what you're using to playback MIDI data it *might* contain some) information about what the final result coming out of your speakers will sound like.
Basically it's like a "virtual player". You just tell your player something like "hit note C1 at beat 1, bar 1" and it will do so. This information will them be passed on to the sound module of your choice.
Apart from that MIDI files may carry a bit more of information, such as MIDI channel data, program change data, tempo data, pitchbend, sustain and further controller data.
But this still doesn't say much about the sound that will perhaps please your ear in the end.
Regarding that it's totally up to your sound module.

To have things a bit more "commonized", further standards, based on "raw" MIDI were invented, such as General MIDI (GM) or even Rolands GS or Yamahas XG standards.
Devices following these standards are more or less (I'd say less...) compatible between each other.
The additional information being followed by these standards in general were consistent patch layouts.
So, if you feed a GM compatible device with program change 33 you can be sure that you will listen to some acoustic bass of some sorts.

Still, this doesn't say anything about the quality of that acoustic bass. It's again all up to the module you're feeding your GMIDI file into.
That might be the reason why even a brilliantly programmed MIDI file might sound like a piece of shit when being played back by your SBLive card which just has the 2MBGM set loaded which comes with it.

If you want to listen to the "real" quality of MIDI files (in case there's any quality...) you will therefor need a GM/GS/XG module with more or less high quality sounds, still following the GM standard.
Roland and Yamaha are well known for their modules.
But still (yes, still), a well programmed MIDI file being done on Yamaha equipment might sound shit when being played back to some Roland module - let alone being played back through some cheapish sounding SBLive 2MB set.

So, as said in my previous post, it all depends what you use to feed the MIDI file into.

With audio things are WAY less complicated as the only difference in sound will be the quality of your output converters, amplifiers and speakers (or headphones). Audio is more like an "absolute" value.
That's why people post MP3s instead of MIDI files... (ah well, some sounds don't even exist in MIDI land - ever heard a voice in a MIDI file?)´.

And finally that's why you would have to render/record your MIDI data to audio (in whatever way) to make sure other people will listen to the same results as you.

I can assure you and probably spe3d would agree that I could write a book on midi. I spent years in music retail, it's just that I decided the poll would be fun because someone asked the question "how do you convert midi into audio?" My response was the same response as always..."you can't you have to have something to create the sounds, there is no audio in midi." I was told there as well that I didn't know what I was talking about and that I contradicted myself with that statement. I say I was not contradicting myself but being more precise. I went on from there to say if one were to walk into a music store and ask for a "midi converter". They would get branded as an easy mark.
Please re-read my original post before making assumptions. My curent list of midi gear and uses are 2 controllers (an Edirol PCR50 and a Roland A33) one Roland XP-10, an Alesis QSR, a 360 degrees systems 8x8 mid ptachbay, a midi sport 2x2 a midiman uno. An Alesis midiverb 4. I also use mesa software to control and automate via midi my Akai DPS12 and sound diver for my QSR and POD. For software I am a cakewalk beta tester, I use NIB4, FL, Sytrus, Dreamstation and tons of freebies. I also use the B4 in FL, I have it set up so that the slide on the PCR50 are inverted so they are true drawbars. The only problem is that there are only 8 slides so I have to use one knob. I have three memory slots used on the PCR50 and with that I can control every draw bar (one manual for each memory slot) knob and switch. In all three memory slots the mod lever controls the rotor switch and the pitch bend controls the swell pedal. Still think I don't know anythingabout midi? I do understand your assumption because I too can't believe that someone uses the word conversion, the converters they talk of use the crap built in synths that come your pc, which to me is not an option....

you can view the disscussion here if you like
http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx ... bb4a43d/25

[IIRs]

"crappy ring tones"

OI! I make WICKED ringtones

We do get a lot of posts on the polytones forum from people asking for "software to convert audio to MIDI" however.. always good for a giggle!