KVR Audio

OreoSplitter · Post by **OreoSplitter** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:55 pm

I posted on the getting started but did not realize it has hardly any activity compared to here, moving on...

Does anyone know of a daw where I can simply edit my midi patterns outside of the song and drag them into the time line as needed? An interface designed to organize my midi patterns outside of the song in some way to recall when needed. Maybe even edit a note and every instance of that same pattern in the song gets updated?

I like studio one but am finding this feature is a must have for the way my brain works. An example is I might have a melody span over 4 measures and repeat itself with slight variations. I would label each midi event (measure) A1 B1 C1 and D1. On the next pass through it might be A2 B1 C2 D1. So the I know with just the names how they relate. The letter is the position, number is a variation.

I want a daw where I can organize my midi events like that for later use and drag in what I want. Even edit A1 midi and all occurrence will be updated. I think fruity loops might do this but want to use piano roll for editing, not a step sequencer. I have only used studio one so far. Any suggestions?

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:22 am

OreoSplitter wrote:I posted on the getting started but did not realize it has hardly any activity compared to here, moving on...

Does anyone know of a daw where I can simply edit my midi patterns outside of the song and drag them into the time line as needed? An interface designed to organize my midi patterns outside of the song in some way to recall when needed. Maybe even edit a note and every instance of that same pattern in the song gets updated?

I like studio one but am finding this feature is a must have for the way my brain works. An example is I might have a melody span over 4 measures and repeat itself with slight variations. I would label each midi event (measure) A1 B1 C1 and D1. On the next pass through it might be A2 B1 C2 D1. So the I know with just the names how they relate. The letter is the position, number is a variation.

I want a daw where I can organize my midi events like that for later use and drag in what I want. Even edit A1 midi and all occurrence will be updated. I think fruity loops might do this but want to use piano roll for editing, not a step sequencer. I have only used studio one so far. Any suggestions?

FL (no longer called fruity loops) has an amazing, perhaps even the best piano roll

No_Use · Post by **No_Use** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:08 am

Hink wrote: FL (no longer called fruity loops) has an amazing, perhaps even the best piano roll

But they removed the 'blocks' thing no ?
Which I think is the thing OP is actually after, the pattern approach. (Not a FL user myself, just wondering).

OreoSplitter · Post by **OreoSplitter** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:11 am

The patterns in FL act the way I am looking for. I looked on youtube to see what blocks were. Seems patterns replaced them but they act the same way. Only concern is pattern page doesn't appear I can organize my patterns. Once I go from the default show all screen to the patterns only, they seem to organize themselves better by going per tack which is good. So I am thinking FL is the way to go. I saw the piano roll can easily be used instead of the step sequencer. I used FL way way way back. Its almost a completely new experience.

Can the patterns be manually organized? What about other screens like plugins, can those be arranged or hidden to show just what you want and where on the page?

No_Use · Post by **No_Use** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:15 pm

Ah ok, sorry then.
I don't follow FL development this closely, just picked up that some users seemed not too happy when blocks were removed, didn't know that there's a replacement.

That said, Ableton Live with its Session View might also fit your bill (well partly, for doing stuff outside the arrange).
Would need ghosted / linked clips though for a 'real' pattern ' approach I think, which it currently hasn't it seems (Live users may correct me).

https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=50033

kevvvvv · Post by **kevvvvv** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:29 pm

Studio One can rename midi files in the browser (right mouse). I do it all the time to highlight favourites, or as oreo splitter suggests, rename to categorise.

I would have thought all daws did this.

But it doesn't edit or reciprocate with the main gui obviously.

Since FL Studio won 2017 DAW of the year here's Music Radar's review for the curious http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/tech/ ... -12-624510

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:48 pm

OreoSplitter wrote:The patterns in FL act the way I am looking for. I looked on youtube to see what blocks were. Seems patterns replaced them but they act the same way. Only concern is pattern page doesn't appear I can organize my patterns. Once I go from the default show all screen to the patterns only, they seem to organize themselves better by going per tack which is good. So I am thinking FL is the way to go. I saw the piano roll can easily be used instead of the step sequencer. I used FL way way way back. Its almost a completely new experience.

Can the patterns be manually organized? What about other screens like plugins, can those be arranged or hidden to show just what you want and where on the page?

you should be able to organize patterns anyway you like, it's been a while since FL was my primary DAW. I moved onto Samplitude (on pro x2 now) which is object based 10 years ago, that is probably precisely what you want to be honest as you can do anything to objects. The thing is Samp is a bit more expensive (starting at 400usd) and you're going to be paying a lot for great features you might not need. There's a lot more you can do with audio objects than midi objects.

UltimateOutsider · Post by **UltimateOutsider** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:55 pm

No_Use wrote:That said, Ableton Live with its Session View might also fit your bill (well partly, for doing stuff outside the arrange).

Yes, Live's session view seems like it's the most natural fit for what OP's looking for. Once all your patterns are put together just drag them to arrangement/piano roll to build your song.

Here's a 3-minute overview that shows it in action:

Native Instruments Maschine would be my second choice for this kind of workflow. (But I'm not sure about the "organizing" that OP's looking for... Live might be better for that.)

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:53 pm

UltimateOutsider wrote:
No_Use wrote:That said, Ableton Live with its Session View might also fit your bill (well partly, for doing stuff outside the arrange).
Yes, Live's session view seems like it's the most natural fit for what OP's looking for. Once all your patterns are put together just drag them to arrangement/piano roll to build your song.

Except that Live does not have ghost clips (instancing). So if you have 12 copies of a clip, there is no master clip to edit which updates them all. You have to edit each one, one by one.

Bitwig is the same as Live this way... with the exception that you can do multi clip editing. SO you could select all 12 of the same clip and edit all of them at once. Not as clean as ghost clips, but doable

steff3 · Post by **steff3** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:04 pm

pdxindy wrote: Except that Live does not have ghost clips (instancing). So if you have 12 copies of a clip, there is no master clip to edit which updates them all. You have to edit each one, one by one.

Bitwig is the same as Live this way... with the exception that you can do multi clip editing. SO you could select all 12 of the same clip and edit all of them at once. Not as clean as ghost clips, but doable

I would also say Live or Bitwig (one can do that in Logic as well using folders and environment, but .....)
The nice thing about Bitwig though is that it has split-screen - it is easier to track between the two modalities compared to e.g. Live and you can decide per track if you want to use mixed mode - which is quite nice.

hope that helps

tatanka · Post by **tatanka** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:35 pm

No longer officially available and no longer develloped but for this kind of midi pattern orientated work Orion was just one of kind. What a shame they just could not make it to a "real" and complete daw.....

freethefumes · Post by **freethefumes** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:26 am

Have a look at a Renoise OP. Look at the tracker interface screenshot here and see if it fits your needs.

https://www.renoise.com/products/renoise

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:56 am

keep in mind that while Renoise is not abandonware, it is officially not currently under development, so dont expect any new features if you go that route.

freethefumes · Post by **freethefumes** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:34 am

I didn't realise that. Shame, it's seriously powerful and being tracker-based is a nice alternative in a world of piano rolls.

BTW, I misread the first post but Renoise does allow you to create phrases which can be entered along with single notes on the same track

No_Use · Post by **No_Use** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:06 pm

bungle wrote:keep in mind that while Renoise is not abandonware, it is officially not currently under development, so dont expect any new features if you go that route.

Oh, news to me, got an official link ?
I'm not so much interested in Renoise but thinking about getting Redux.
So it'd definitely be interesting to know what the company is up to.

Need a daw that is midi pattern oriented