KVR Audio

acey · Post by **acey** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:23 pm

I'm sure this topic has been discussed many times before. First let me say that I am a loyal Ableton fan, I own Ableton Live Suite and Push v.1 and the current version, Push 2. So, you could say I'm quit committed to Ableton as a DAW.
I recently picked up Apple Logic X, just to learn something new, and the price can't be beat for what it includes. As soon as I started using it, I noticed that the sounds blew me away. Both DAWS reside on the same Imac, same sound card. Now I realize that there are a lot of variables involved here that would account for the sound difference. But just today, I loaded up the plugin Oddity v. 1.3 by Gforce in Logic and couldn't believe it was the same plugin I used before. I always hated this plugin and never ever used it because it always sounded very thin and not exciting as I imagined it should sound. I've used it on Pc's and Macs, all in Ableton Live, never sounded good to my ears. It sounds amazing in Logic, punchy, dynamic, and fat, It's like having a brand new plugin.
What could account for this? Does Logic have a better "sound engine"?

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:31 pm

Does the standalone version sound the same as Logic or Live?

Zexila · Post by **Zexila** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:32 pm

Pan law?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_law

BDeep · Post by **BDeep** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:37 pm

You probably checked this... but the signal isn't clipping anywhere in Live by chance?

Bodhisan · Post by **Bodhisan** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:15 am

This has to be a matter of me getting better at recording, but I felt the very same way when I switched from Pro Tools 10 to Logic...sonic differences...but I don't understand, as the DAW, I would assume, has nothing to do with the sound - but, I don't know jack shit about that area of expertise...

dreamkeeper · Post by **dreamkeeper** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:40 am

Logic's 1s are more "i"-shaped, while the 0s resemble apples...

OK, seriously: If you actually* get different sound from a different DAW, there MUST be a difference in settings - no other way.

Once I had a similar moment, trying Reaper and thought "WTF?!". Turned out that Reaper (at least back then) defaulted to 88.2kHz sample rate AND the patch in Omnisphere I was using, contained an amp-sim that was extremely sensitive to sample rate - in fact it sounded totally different! Once back to 44.1kHz, everything was back to normal again. So there...!

* not only in your perception

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:20 am

If you dont apply anything to the audio file the sound should be the same. Effects, warping, panning and other process can and will affect audio.

mholloway · Post by **mholloway** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:35 am

Here we go again!

I'll keep this brief:

No, Logic does not "have a better sound engine" than Ableton.

They are both transparent.

If there's nothing on your master bus, and nothing different between the two channels in each DAW that have Oddity2 on it, then <<<<<wait for it>>>>> the difference you hear is ENTIRELY IN YOUR MIND.

And that is that.

But, since your placebo will tell you otherwise, go ahead and dive into the THOUSANDS OF PAGES of discussion that exist here and elswhere on this matter. Pay especially close attention to zero sum tests that have been performed countless times.

There is no difference.

Move along.

-M

Googly Smythe · Post by **Googly Smythe** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:03 am

My DAW sounds better than all the others, so there.

Zexila · Post by **Zexila** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:40 am

This may come as good read.

http://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?t=45272

masterhiggins · Post by **masterhiggins** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:47 am

Logically there shouldn't be a diffence, but has there been an in-depth scientific study of it? All I see is conjecture. The burden of proof can fall on either. If the daws are not all coded the same why would they necessarily sound the same? Unless, of course, they're all using the exact same method of recording/playback/summing.

Yorrrrrr · Post by **Yorrrrrr** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:17 am

Yes, Logic X's 1s and 0s obviously sound better than Ableton Live 1s and 0s

masterhiggins · Post by **masterhiggins** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:29 am

Reductio ad absurdums never get old.

Googly Smythe · Post by **Googly Smythe** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:57 am

masterhiggins wrote:Logically there shouldn't be a diffence, but has there been an in-depth scientific study of it? All I see is conjecture. The burden of proof can fall on either. If the daws are not all coded the same why would they necessarily sound the same? Unless, of course, they're all using the exact same method of recording/playback/summing.

It seems to me that the only DAWs that do sound different are Harrison's Mixbus and their other one. Other than those, I would have thought that the goal of a DAW design would be to colour the sound as little as possible. Then the user can add their own dirt to taste.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:59 am

masterhiggins wrote:Logically there shouldn't be a diffence, but has there been an in-depth scientific study of it? All I see is conjecture. The burden of proof can fall on either. If the daws are not all coded the same why would they necessarily sound the same? Unless, of course, they're all using the exact same method of recording/playback/summing.

There have been lots of studies... and when you are doing the exact same thing, you can null the results so the human ear is out of the equation altogether.

Logic X sounds better than Ableton Live?