Roland Boutique SE-02 ... (actual analog. roland brand, studio electronics build)

[DJ Warmonger]

After watching a number of videos, I have to admit... I really like the design and these blinky lights

[zerocrossing]

These are classic Studio Electronics and Minimoog sounds.

No they aren't, they are bog-standard synth sounds any V/A can manage. But don't worry, I sincerely doubt I'll fall for the allure of Roland's Boutique stuff again. I learned my lesson with the JP-08 and JU-06 and today I am tidying up my Minilogue and Monologue so I can take photos and put them up on eBay, too. I have my Rocket and I think it will be a very long time before something comes along to knock it off its perch. I mean, if the Pulse 2 can't manage it, what hope does anything else have?

I had a Pulse 2, and while it's a good synth, it's audio rate stuff was pretty anemic compared to the SE-02 (or anything by Studio Electronics) I'm not saying this synth is for you, but to compare it to your Synthedit stuff, only tells me that you've probably damaged your hearing. There is a quality to the sound of a synth like this that I clearly can hear that even exceeds the better recent software synths like Legend. Don't get me wrong, I bought Legend because I can poly chain 5 instances and run each instance in 4 voice unison mode for an absolute amazing pad sound, but when I look for a great sounding analog bass, I'm going for my ATC-X or Neptune 2 and I'm confident for that kind of character, no software can touch it. The SE-02 will enter my world because having a sequencer with modulation sequencing adds something really nice to my studio. I might even ditch my Neptune 2 to fund the purchase.

Also, the basic character of the SE-02 is so completely different that I have to scratch my head and wonder why you'd even bring it up. If you said you had the Boomstar 5089 and you were going to stick with that instead of the SE-02, I'd say, "sure, I get that." But the character differences in those two synths are so big that having both would be really nice. I wouldn't even ditch my ATC-X because I find the extra LFO and EG to be worth keeping it around (it also has 303, ARP and SEM filter types)

[SHall1000]

In Germany The Pulse 2 is cheaper than Minilogue and SE-02.


- Waldorf Pulse 2: 519 €

Currently Pulse 2 available on line for £358 (€394). Tempted.

How does the para-phony work. Is it usable?

[BONES]

I'm not saying this synth is for you, but to compare it to your Synthedit stuff, only tells me that you've probably damaged your hearing.

I'm not talking about the synth, I am talking about one, specific demo of it, which I found supremely underwhelming.

There is a quality to the sound of a synth like this that I clearly can hear that even exceeds the better recent software synths like Legend.

Via heavily compressed audio on YouTube. Really? Wow.

when I look for a great sounding analog bass, I'm going for my ATC-X or Neptune 2 and I'm confident for that kind of character, no software can touch it.

I'm assuming "that kind of character" will be something utterly compelling, right? Because I can guarantee that no hardware can hold a candle to the basslines we've been getting out of softsynths for the last 12-15 years. Rocket comes close but it doesn't quite get there.

The SE-02 will enter my world because having a sequencer with modulation sequencing adds something really nice to my studio. I might even ditch my Neptune 2 to fund the purchase.

Have you checked out KORG's Monologue? They've made some massive improvements to motion sequencing over the Minilogue implementation.

Also, the basic character of the SE-02 is so completely different

Not in that demo, it isn't. It just sounds like a million other synths. In fact I've not heard anything uniquely characterful about it in any of the demo videos I've watched. One of the demos sounded OK but not amazingly different or anything that says to me it can do things I can't already do.

[BONES]

Currently Pulse 2 available on line for £358 (€394). Tempted. Haow does the para-phonic work. Is it usable for?

The paraphonic stuff in Pulse 2 is actually my biggest disappointment. Where the Rocket uses it to extend the range of possibilities enormously, with the Pulse 2 you lose more than you gain, because when you choose any of the paraphonic/unison oscillator modes, you lose Osc 2 and 3. So if you want a fat unison sound, you can only get it with a single oscillator, no cross-mod or anything else.

[chk071]

I just wonder what you heard in the demo you posted earlier. It sounds like a overly distorted pig there, but nothing like the character of a Minimoog. Rather buy a Minibrute for such sounds.

[zerocrossing]

I'm not saying this synth is for you, but to compare it to your Synthedit stuff, only tells me that you've probably damaged your hearing.

I'm not talking about the synth, I am talking about one, specific demo of it, which I found supremely underwhelming.

There is a quality to the sound of a synth like this that I clearly can hear that even exceeds the better recent software synths like Legend.

Via heavily compressed audio on YouTube. Really? Wow.

when I look for a great sounding analog bass, I'm going for my ATC-X or Neptune 2 and I'm confident for that kind of character, no software can touch it.

I'm assuming "that kind of character" will be something utterly compelling, right? Because I can guarantee that no hardware can hold a candle to the basslines we've been getting out of softsynths for the last 12-15 years. Rocket comes close but it doesn't quite get there.

The SE-02 will enter my world because having a sequencer with modulation sequencing adds something really nice to my studio. I might even ditch my Neptune 2 to fund the purchase.

Have you checked out KORG's Monologue? They've made some massive improvements to motion sequencing over the Minilogue implementation.

Also, the basic character of the SE-02 is so completely different

Not in that demo, it isn't. It just sounds like a million other synths. In fact I've not heard anything uniquely characterful about it in any of the demo videos I've watched. One of the demos sounded OK but not amazingly different or anything that says to me it can do things I can't already do.

I've listened to all the demos, and since I've owned several Studio Electronics synths, I can extrapolate past any Youtube compression.

Compelling? I think so, very much, but I'm a fan of a real VCO going into a 24 db lp ladder filter. It's not an amusement park of possibilities like some software can be, but it's a pure honest sound that gets me. Like a great human voice or guitar through a tube amp. It's something that no software synth has quite gotten to yet, but some, like Legend or RePro-1, are very close. Maybe those synths aren't for you either, but I an tell you that your Novakill isn't even in the neighborhood. From memory, I didn't even find it a great Synthedit creation back when I was trying out those things. If it makes you happy, great, but there are a lot of people who still get excited by a good old analog synth.

I did check out the Monologue. I liked it a lot, but it's missing some features that I find necessary. One of my quirks is that I got really used to velocity and aftertouch when I owned a DW8000 and later a TS-10. I must admit that I thought these were great progressions made for electronic instruments (I'm now a Roli Rise owner too) and it's sad that the analog character I do like is resurging, but along with it the same old basic features. That's why the SE-02 is interesting to me, because it's not just a Model D clone. It's inspired by that, but adds things like osc sync, dedicated LFO, sequencer, velocity and aftertouch, patch memory, etc. All those things are also important to me.

So, anyway, I'm not trying to sell you on that classic sound of the VCO/Ladder filter sound, but it's definitely not easily attainable in your software and your Pulse 2 won't get close. If you like that type of thing, like many do, then I could see this being a must buy synth. You'd probably be better off with RePro-1. Great sequencer and if the basic analog tone doesn't do it for you, it's waveshaper (Jaws) is amazing. Very good for industrial and all aggressive sounds. Again, I'm not trying to cut down the Pulse 2. It's a great synth, but a totally different vibe.

[sprnva]

Found this video earlier while looking into the Monologue.

As pointed out in the comments, there's noticeable stepping in the SE-02's filter with the resonance cranked. Just after the 1 minute mark.

[JCJR]

Found this video earlier while looking into the Monologue.

As pointed out in the comments, there's noticeable stepping in the SE-02's filter with the resonance cranked. Just after the 1 minute mark.

My ears are not good enough to definitely blame that on zipper artifacts.

If the filter were set to self oscillate and all vco input muted, and it made that sound it would probably be zippering. With no audio input, if the sine wave from the filter didn't smoothly sweep then it would almost certainly be zippering.

However a good pure high-q near self oscillation filter scanning down thru a sawtooth wave or other harmonic rich wave, the filter would strongly amplify just one harmonic at a time on its way down thru the harmonics.

As resonance is reduced, the sweep would tend to boost groups of harmonics on the way thru, which would diminish the "zipper sound".

That high q filter effect sounds exactly like stepping even with analog envelope and analog everything else in the circuit.

So the se02 mellow stepping sound might might be the result of a very selective well behaved filter. Or it might be stepping in the CV. Dunno. Could be tested by self oscillating the filter with no audio input and then see if the filter's sine wave steps.

[BONES]

Compelling? I think so, very much, but I'm a fan of a real VCO going into a 24 db lp ladder filter.

This seems to be the nub of the problem - you are more concerned with how the sound is created than how it actually sounds at the end of the process. OTOH, the only thing that matters to me is the end result so digital or analogue or anything else is perfectly fine with me, as long as it sounds good.

It's not an amusement park of possibilities like some software can be, but it's a pure honest sound that gets me. Like a great human voice or guitar through a tube amp. It's something that no software synth has quite gotten to yet, but some, like Legend or RePro-1, are very close.

Similar thing here. I don't care how close Legend is to anything, I use it because it sounds great and is easy to program. If anything, a slavish emulation holds it back. Fortunately, Rich added some excellent features that make it so much better than any MiniMoog could ever hope to be.

You'd probably be better off with RePro-1. Great sequencer and if the basic analog tone doesn't do it for you, it's waveshaper (Jaws) is amazing.

Why would I want a synth with a sequencer when it will be sitting inside a sequencer? Anyway, I'd have to pay for it and I'm sorry but no plugin is worth $100 to me, I'm afraid.

Very good for industrial and all aggressive sounds. Again, I'm not trying to cut down the Pulse 2. It's a great synth, but a totally different vibe.

I don't generally make aggressive sounds in the synth, I make them in the mix. i.e. With effects. The sorts of sounds you're talking about are probably things I actually hate.

[Uncle E]

Found this video earlier while looking into the Monologue.

As pointed out in the comments, there's noticeable stepping in the SE-02's filter with the resonance cranked. Just after the 1 minute mark.

The stepping doesn't exist in the final release. I tested specifically for it with the resonance at 100% and didn't hear anything dramatic like in that video.

[Uncle E]

This seems to be the nub of the problem - you are more concerned with how the sound is created than how it actually sounds at the end of the process. OTOH, the only thing that matters to me is the end result so digital or analogue or anything else is perfectly fine with me, as long as it sounds good.

That is a baseless argument. Furthermore, it's obvious that your interpretation of sounds good is not anywhere near zerocrossing's interpretation so what is it that we're even talking about here?

[sprnva]

The stepping doesn't exist in the final release. I tested specifically for it with the resonance at 100% and didn't hear anything dramatic like in that video.

Ah so that was a pre-production model. It wasn't made clear.

[BONES]

This seems to be the nub of the problem - you are more concerned with how the sound is created than how it actually sounds at the end of the process. OTOH, the only thing that matters to me is the end result so digital or analogue or anything else is perfectly fine with me, as long as it sounds good.

That is a baseless argument. Furthermore, it's obvious that your interpretation of sounds good is not anywhere near zerocrossing's interpretation so what is it that we're even talking about here?

No, it's not. It shows that how some people rate a sound is influenced by how the sound is made, not just by the sound itself. It doesn't matter that one person's idea of a "good" sound is different to another's. If it matters to a listener how a sound was created, then there is an inherent bias it that view of the qualities of the sound which makes the assessment unreliable. It's like asking someone who has driven nothing but Toyotas their entire life what car you should buy. You know the answer before you ask the question.

He revealed this bias in referring to the Pulse 2 and ignoring my stated preference for the Rocket, a non-analogue synth. The clear inference was that a synth with ah digital oscillator wasn't worth worrying about. The fact I'd already stated my preference for it over the Pulse 2 didn't seem to so much as register.

[transmetropolitan]

I love digital and analog oscillators, wavetables, FM, additive, East Coast etc etc etc

However it's a complete non-sequitur to argue that saying "I'm a fan of a real VCO going into a 24 db lp ladder filter" means that you care about the source not the sound.

It just means that particular source has a particular sound. Describing sound with words is nigh on impossible anyway... It's a way of conveying sound in a way that makes sense to a number of different people.

We all have different perspectives and views on how different instruments interact with ourselves and our music. To you the Minilogue is boring, but I suspect either you don't fully understand/grasp it or it's not right for your music. I love mine.

Similarly you find the Rocket indispensable, to me it's quirky but unremarkable. I'm happy to be schooled about the instrument even if it's probably not for me.