Scarbee J-Slap'n Fingered vs Spectrasonics Trilogy

[klagga]

The Scarbee J-Slap'n Fingered looks great. The demos sound impressive. It seems the Scarbee products are among the best right now when you want quality sample collections.

Has anybody compared it with Trilogy from Spectrasonics?

I know Trilogy has more than just electric basses (acoustic and synth basses), but for the electric bass part, which one of these two collections has the upper hand?

Trilogy is, for example, free from machine gun effects when playing bass staccato. What about the Scarbee collection?

Sincerely

Klagga

[Alan Lastufka]

From Scarbee.com: 2039 samples are dedicated to each of the 3 pick-up settings: Bridge, Both and Neck, giving you the total of 6117 samples - about 2 GB on the 4 CD's...

Sounds like you won't have to worry about the machine gun effect

If I had to choose between the two options given, I would choose Scarbee's as its dedicated to the instrument you are looking for...

EDITED because I worded my post wrong initially.

[flugel45]

...
I would go with Scarbee's library any day over the Spectrasonics... it's dedicated to the instrument you are looking for, not just thrown in with a bunch of others...

The other side of that argument is that Trilogy could handle all your bass needs while Scarbee couldn't even come close (unless you're content with just one sound).

Bottom line, they're both great libraries. Just get the one you feel fills your needs for the moment.

JD

[spectrum]

It's not a fair categorization at all to say that Trilogy's electric basses are "thrown in" (especially when Electric is the most represented category in Trilogy)

Both are widely recognized as really fine products, and different too. Just listing the number of samples doesn't tell the whole story, by any means (both have similar numbers anyway). For instance, Scarbee has some articulations that Trilogy doesn't have, but on the other hand, Scarbee actually doesn't have anything like Trilogy's True Staccato concept:

http://www.spectrasonics.net/instrument ... _demo.html

The concept behind Scarbee's is to present a comprehensive range of one bass with a single technique (a slapped library or a fingered library) and many articulations for that one type of sound. You basically get one great bass played in one technique, but you can do a lot with that one sound....especaily when it comes to soloing. Thomas is a buddy, and I definitely have the highest respect for his work.

http://www.spectrasonics.net/NAMM/sunda ... C_0052.JPG

Our concept on Trilogy is to present a comprehesive variety of different types of basses and techniques (slapped, fingered, picked, fretless, acoustic, synth) -all in one place, with the most useful articulations put together in a way designed for expressive real-time playing. Trilogy has a lot of different sounds and different approaches in one place that can be combined and used in many different ways. Check out the demos page for examples:

http://www.spectrasonics.net/instrument ... demos.html

Also, the custom engine in Trilogy allows a number of special and unique features like True Legato triggering, dual layers, interchangeable release triggers and a lot of other special stuff too. So you basically get a lot of expressive different basses covering all the basic types, and many ways of using them....especially when it comes to creating new sounds.

So it's two very different approaches to the world of Bass that are designed for different types of uses. Both are very valid approaches, and neither have anything "thrown in".

spectrum

PS. Alan....it's always good practice to let people know that you are also a developer with a competitive Bass product too, so that they can understand your comments in that context...thanks!

[Alan Lastufka]

Spectrum,

I'm sorry - I didn't mean it to be negative towards Trilogy, I simply meant - I personaly prefer libraries that are focused on one instrument when that is the instrument I am going for.

I've actually been over at your site for the last hour going through information and demos and was just on my way back here to edit my post when I ran into yours.

I am a developer, but didn't bring my library up at all, nor do I have any "allience" with Thomas, so no reason to push his library either. I don't consider you or Thomas competitors, I think there is room for what everyone is doing in the business, and I will be the first one to admit that owning more than one lib of the same instrument is beneficial.

He was asking what we would personaly do in his situation. And I told him, if I were looking for an electric bass, I would buy a library dedicated to electric bass - with the choices given, I would have chosen Scarbee.

You make a fine product, the demos sound great, they honestly do. Sorry if I came off sounding negative in my post.

[spectrum]

No problem Alan, thanks for the clarification....much appreciated!

I think it still always depends on the particular type of Electric Bass someone is looking for.....if they are interested in getting a detailed Fretless or Picked Bass, then Trilogy would obviously be the better option, since Scarbee's are dedicated to a single technique per library and he doesn't offer a Fretless or Picked collection.

Definitely agree that there's plenty of room in the market for everyone to try different approaches with quality sounds. Your new library sounds nice too!

spectrum

[tobyond]

Spectrasonics Trilogy is a swiss army knife of basses, it has everything and very nicely done too, for sheer quality and true realism scarbee is breathtaking no eq needed, Thomas Scarbee is one of the most meticulous samplers in the business. Trilogy on the other hand has the best upright available. They are both indespensible.
If I were to pick one I'd probably go to trilogy because it does everything I need and the electric can take a little eq to make it perfect, also take into consideration whether you want to run in your own sampler and stream, or run in a dedicated one.

[Rik]

The Scarbee J-Slap'n Fingered looks great. The demos sound impressive. It seems the Scarbee products are among the best right now when you want quality sample collections.

I find the demos so impressive, I wouldn't wonder at all. The slap articulations are outstanding and I read several raving reviews of this collection.

The only reason I didn't buy them is because it took a long time before they were ready for Kontakt and meanwhile I got the Wizoosounds sounds (which are great too but not up to the Scarbee ones).

Erik.

[griels]

Also, the custom engine in Trilogy allows a number of special and unique features like True Legato triggering, dual layers, interchangeable release triggers and a lot of other special stuff too. So you basically get a lot of expressive different basses covering all the basic types, and many ways of using them....especially when it comes to creating new sounds.

Eric, is there anything in Trilogy that couldn't be implemented in Kontakt? From what I can see True Staccato is a simple mapping, layering can be done with groups, there are round robin and legato processing features, and so on.

I posted about this before because it's the one thing that put me off Trilogy.. The Upright Bass is truly amazing from the demos, but I want the flexibility that a fullblown sampler VSTi like Kontakt offers me. I would truly love a Kontakt version.

I agree about the electric bass though... Scarbee's and Alan's basses sound much more detailed to me. From the demos I've heard, the Trilogy electric basses have a slightly different character to me... Less 'detailed' sounding, maybe due to the fewer articulations.

[Rik]

Eric, is there anything in Trilogy that couldn't be implemented in Kontakt? From what I can see True Staccato is a simple mapping, layering can be done with groups, there are round robin and legato processing features, and so on.

Since Kontakt 1.5.1, since they added the new group triggering features, no problem with Staccato, nor layering (which scarbee bass samples are using I believe).

[AD80]

Trilogy's beautiful. I love it to death. It has everything I need as far as bass and even a lot of leads. And the UVI engine is efficient and simple. Great product.

[spectrum]

Eric, is there anything in Trilogy that couldn't be implemented in Kontakt? From what I can see True Staccato is a simple mapping, layering can be done with groups, there are round robin and legato processing features, and so on.

Yes...Trilogy's a customized interface and engine was made specifically for Bass. The legato triggering is way more smooth in Trilogy than the way Kontakt does it. Glide is a lot smoother too. The group layering in Kontakt is fine, but it's not as simple to use as it is in Trilogy. There are a lot of other fine details in the differences between the two engines as well.

The biggest difference is Trilogy's tone. The same samples wouldn't sound nearly as fat in Kontakt, because the low-end of the Trilogy engine was heavily tweaked and optimized specifically for great bass tone with those particular samples.

That's one of the biggest reasons we make instruments instead of libraries now....the ability to really customize an instrument to get the best features and tone for one particular application, and make that available to everyone....instead of using a general purpose sampler interface approach for every type of sound. Customization opens up a lot of new possiblities that just aren't possible with doing sample libraries. The future is very exciting for our instruments because of this. What you see now is really only the very beginning!

spectrum

[Mr.Scarbee]

Well - thanks for the nice words about our basses.

Scarbee and Spectrasonics have different approaches to sampling - both suitable for different gigs.
But we share the vision of making outstanding, uncompromised quality products and I have been a dedicated Persing fan since I started as a musician :)because I love quality work.

Trilogy has many different basses (synth, fing,picked, fretl., acoust.) and they will work great in any studio.

I don't think you will find many Trilogy owners that has regret that they bought it...

[Mr.Scarbee]

Eric, is there anything in Trilogy that couldn't be implemented in Kontakt? From what I can see True Staccato is a simple mapping, layering can be done with groups, there are round robin and legato processing features, and so on.

Since Kontakt 1.5.1, since they added the new group triggering features, no problem with Staccato, nor layering (which scarbee bass samples are using I believe).

Yes.

[Mr.Scarbee]

Hi,

About release samples and "Staccato-release" we have made a pretty advanced system with Scarbee J-Slap n'Fingered. Our philosophy has been to be able to simulate any possible situation so we made some neat programming tricks. We use a technique we called Scarbee Trigger-tails - because we discovered a way to cut up phrases and make a programming that could put thise phrases back together, combine them with pieces from other phrases etc. This meant that we would never be limited by change of time ot pitch.

First of all there are some basic things about release samples on bass - the sound that comes when you release the string with your finger.

a) Loose release - this is the sound when you lift your finger from the string and don't mute it.
Tight release - most good bass players exercise a lot to get a fast muting technique to avoid to much buzz and rumble in their tracks. Therefore you try to mute string as fast as possible either by using left hand or by using right hand.Third option is a zero-release sound - when slapping you can mute/dampen strings by using left hand or using right hand palm (Tony Oppenheimber style with thumb down) or using right lower arm to dampen/mute strings. This means that you can dampen so fast that you will not hear the release sound.

All these 3 versions of the release sound is included in our Bass lib. You use keyswitch to decide what kind of damping you want. Ex. Jaco Pastorious staccato playing uses the tight release.
Or Rocco Prestia bass lines.(Tower Of power)

But more than this we have also made it possible to have release-sound after hammer-ons/pull-offs, after slides, gracenotes - any articulation. Also the sustained sound or other articulation comming before release sound can have ANY lenght - meaning that you are not doomed to have a special lenght on a pre-made staccato note or other phrase. Because in a slow song/tempo ex. staccato notes will be longer than in a fast tempo - that's kind of logic, right?
This is no problem with our system.

We have made each string "monophonic" so that if you play legato-style (no gab between notes) the release sound will never appear (like in real life), if gab is short - realese sound will be short too.

This means that you can play sustain to hammer-on to slide and then release sound - if you like.

The release sound is thereby quite automatic and "intelligent".

You can also decide to have NO release sound after ex. a hammer-on if you go from A-H on E-string to D-E on A string then your right hand (thumb resting) hand will auto-mute e string imediately in real life - and this can be simulated in out libs.too.

PS. I created J-Slap'n Fingered 3-4 years ago (I invented the programming technique using trigger-tales (articulations cut up in pieces) in 1997 - first tried on Emu 4 then further devloped in Giga - later Halion/Kontakt. At that time I was only "Allowed" to use 1 CD per. product and had to compromise on some lenght and number of samples/articulations ( so I "only" made 6000 samples of the Celinder Bass! The next bass libraries i will soon create will have no limits at all. These next libraries will be my own personal basses to use on studiowork and albums.