KVR Audio

JackDark · Post by **JackDark** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:08 pm

Soluna - An experiment in sound storytelling.

You can click on the song titles to download them in MP3 format:

Fields Of The Sun

0:00-0:21 Morning Mist Drips Off The Grass
0:21-0:42 Insects Awaken & Stir Their Wings
0:42-1:05 Dawn Breaks; Flowers Bloom
1:05-2:03 The Sun Warms The Earth While The Wind Sings
2:03-2:50 Children Play On A Hill Of Flowery Flora; Laughing
2:50-3:10 Day Fades To Dusk
3:10-3:28 A Child Remembers

Moors Of The Moon

0:00-0:25 Dusk Creeps Over The Land
0:25-0:40 A Black Blanket Devours
0:40-1:40 Shadows Whisper
1:40-2:40 The Midnight Spirit Cries
2:40-3:00 Memories Of The Dead
3:00-3:36 Night Smells Dawn
3:36-3:57 Night & Dawn Battle
3:57-4:09 Dawn Kills The Night

For more information about Soluna, please visit:

http://www.nerthus.co.uk/jackdark/soluna.html

Your opinion/critique is welcome!

Jbravo · Post by **Jbravo** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:42 am

Hey I like it! I thought I detected Fruity beepmap in there too....and I was right!

very nice. I like ambient spacey stuff

ToneDunce · Post by **ToneDunce** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:07 am

I'd like to submit a critique.

Story telling with exclusively synthetic timbres is a problematic thing - it's much like doing portraits with only large abstract shapes.

If the mettle of a story (in audio at least) is the core of associations the sound produces, then it might be worth thinking this over: synthetica does not seem to give the listener's ear any opportunity to draw upon associations, memories.

Synth timbres seemingly come in a lot of different varieties but this variety is deceptive: in their majority they are extremely inarticulate, just like plain arrangements of symmetric geometric shapes. There are very few exceptions... A brutal synthetic sine pad suggests almost nothing to the unconscious mind/ear precisely because of its authentic, unreal purity.

This is further aggravated by the fact that synth timbres are often "in your face", "alien","unlike anything else", compared even to the simplest of real instruments. They immediately demand all the attention when they enter the stage, so to speak, and thus something not entirely desirable happens when the stage becomes filled to the brim with these otherworldly pseudo-geometric primadonnas.

All this might be a blessing in diguise though, depending on how you think of it. I think that any work could be much more suggestive if it used real instruments or at least something that suggests various real timbres to fill the stage, and carefully present synth sounds in a way that takes advantage of their inherent "attention grabber from outer space" properties...

Cheers,
ToneDunce

JackDark · Post by **JackDark** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:48 am

Jbravo wrote:Hey I like it! I thought I detected Fruity beepmap in there too....and I was right!

very nice. I like ambient spacey stuff

Hey thanks a lot! I think the BeepMap is super awesome , and definitly needs to be further elaborated upon in v5.0.

JackDark · Post by **JackDark** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:51 am

ToneDunce wrote:I'd like to submit a critique.

Story telling with exclusively synthetic timbres is a problematic thing - it's much like doing portraits with only large abstract shapes.

If the mettle of a story (in audio at least) is the core of associations the sound produces, then it might be worth thinking this over: synthetica does not seem to give the listener's ear any opportunity to draw upon associations, memories.

Synth timbres seemingly come in a lot of different varieties but this variety is deceptive: in their majority they are extremely inarticulate, just like plain arrangements of symmetric geometric shapes. There are very few exceptions... A brutal synthetic sine pad suggests almost nothing to the unconscious mind/ear precisely because of its authentic, unreal purity.

This is further aggravated by the fact that synth timbres are often "in your face", "alien","unlike anything else", compared even to the simplest of real instruments. They immediately demand all the attention when they enter the stage, so to speak, and thus something not entirely desirable happens when the stage becomes filled to the brim with these otherworldly pseudo-geometric primadonnas.

All this might be a blessing in diguise though, depending on how you think of it. I think that any work could be much more suggestive if it used real instruments or at least something that suggests various real timbres to fill the stage, and carefully present synth sounds in a way that takes advantage of their inherent "attention grabber from outer space" properties...

Cheers,
ToneDunce

I can see where you are coming from with this aspect, however I tend to disagree. Much of Eno's works (some of which were all synthetic) brought plenty of memories and visions to mind. Also a lot of Mum's earlier works (and even Aphex Twin's) did the same. I guess the tonality and timbre aspects in the mnemonics department really boils down to pure opinion and taste. Still, I appreciate your insight, it was an interesting read.

Rouqmirg · Post by **Rouqmirg** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:32 am

ToneDunce, I would also tend to disagree with your statement. I haven't listened to either of these tracks yet, but in general, at least to me, music is music, and melodies/harmony are what bring memories to my mind, not the specific timbre of a particular instrument. I agree with you partially in that it is good to use natural instruments, as it gives the listener something to grab hold of, something that they 'know'. However, I think you'd be surprised how well synthesizers and classical instruments can be blended together, almost seamlessly in some cases: each part complementing the other. Even synthesizer-only songs can contain just as much emotion and feeling as a piano or guitar solo. Personally I think it is wise to use everything that we have available, in order to create something great (even if it only seems that way to ourselves). The instrument is a means to an end, and it is the final result, whether synthesized or 'real', that "strikes a chord" with the human mind and makes us think "that was a damn good track."

Maybe I explained myself well, but probably not.

Anyways Jack, I see you're making the rounds (this is Locke from DS). Haven't had a chance to listen yet but I will soon enough. Later.

Crackbaby · Post by **Crackbaby** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:35 am

jack.. err.. Mr Dark i mean

I really enjoyed your pieces. When i was in school i tried to do the four seasons. So i know how hard it is to do what you just did. The summer and winter i only managed to do while choked on prescribed drugs

Hehe.. not really, just sleepingpills, but not me sleeping. Wierd things happens then, you are asleep but still awake .. Wierd.

Its a tough enough job to convince yourself that the things you want it to sound like (associate with) really sounds that way. When i was done, most people could tell witch song was what; spring, summer, autum and winter. I cheated with the spring (recorded some birds through the window

).

Unfortuntly i did a terrible job when mixing it. It was the last thing we did (you could do whatever, but it had to be finished on time). The drums at some parts was way to loud, and as a last desperat (five minutes left ..gahh!) i just limited the songs. That was stupid .. heh. I dont have the tools to rework it anymore either.
I was most proud of the summer. The morning when i woke up after making it, people came into my room and told me that it sounded like summer.

About your songs.
The first one, Fields of the sun, it began beautifully. The first two 'titles', morning mist and insects was perfect. I could really feel what it was. But then when 'dawn breaks' you lost me. I dont know how many colours those flowers had .. hehe, but that .. um, was it that malström kind of thing? I would have preferd something gentle. In order to follow the story, one need to be in that laid back mode.

As i think ToneDunce ment (little tired here), there is need for more sounds in it. The sudden appearnce of new sounds should be softer. The mood should 'glide' in.

Im glad to see that more people than I are interested in this kind of music/art.
If you want i can put my 'seasons' on my website for you to critisice.

Best regards

JackDark · Post by **JackDark** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:48 am

Rouqmirg wrote:Anyways Jack, I see you're making the rounds (this is Locke from DS). Haven't had a chance to listen yet but I will soon enough. Later.

Your opinion would certainly be valued considering how into ambient and soundtrack-esque music you are.

I hear you write good stuff too, I've been meaning to give Without Words a listen for a while now (need to add it to my GetRight list). I shall.

JackDark · Post by **JackDark** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:51 am

Crackbaby wrote:I really enjoyed your pieces.

Well to be honest the conceptualizing of what each moment/scene meant came to me after I finished the songs. I only went into them saying "this is the day song", this is the "night" song. So in the end, the interpretation is really in the ears of the beholder. I do appreciate that you have a taste for works such as these, especially considering the experimental aspect involved.

I wouldn't mind listening to your works if they are similiar to my own endeavors.

Crackbaby · Post by **Crackbaby** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:04 am

Ill put them up soon and drop a message here when done. (dont want to start messin with installing ftp and shit when i havent sleept all night.)

ToneDunce · Post by **ToneDunce** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:08 am

Crackbaby, let's hear it mate

In my post with regards to synth timbres, I did indeed want to suggest that the same melody or accompaniment played by different instruments suggests entirely different things in a STORYTELLING CONTEXT.

This context, as I view it, is a little bit different from the more general self-expression and experimental sides of music where quite possibly anything goes.

Storytelling involves theatre in audio; hence just as the classical styles this imposes a certain set of rigid restrictions wherein one should work.

It might seem like sampling some seagulls will help suggest "the sea", which surely is true. However, "the sea" is a massive space of possibilities - what kind of sea? Is it a calm seashore? A raging storm? A cold rainy day when you feel like you shouldn't be outside at all and tiny bits of salty precipitation tickle your cheeks?

The "let me use a seagull" way of thinking becomes hopelessly inadequate in a storytelling context.

Perhaps tiny high pitched bells, synced to the sound of synthetic washes of noise, moving in and out of the mix?

But what if I took the bells and instead of tinkling them replaced the sound with the typical "string pad" patch from my synth. The same melody would now mean something different, probably too different for good taste or for reflecting reality: the synth-strings will now overpower absolutely everything, but wait,I think I'm already reaching for my vulgar Industrial Kickdrum to fix that problem in good old PoMo fashion...

I notice that many children, before they go to school, paint pictures of the sky with all kinds of different colors and shades; this goes on until they learn that the sky is blue. Henceforth, unfortunately, it tends to be blue all the time.

I think that using exclusively otherworldly synth timbres is, in the vast majority of cases, dangerous. As far as storytelling, beware, they WILL make you always paint your sky blue.

Cheers!
ToneDunce

Crackbaby · Post by **Crackbaby** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:37 am

Well written ToneDunce!!

Speaking of classical music.. I myself do a little work there, using GPO. Its great fun i tell you

If you can, listen to Franz Liszts Liebestraum, the orchastrated version. That tune surely paints up a picture about a dream of love. Amazing.

Emerald Tablet · Post by **Emerald Tablet** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:47 am

great work but lot`s of harsh sounds
need to put this through a spectrumanalyser to find out why many parts hurt my ears

composition wise / artistic wise very good
i love the sphere

thanks

JackDark · Post by **JackDark** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:24 am

Emerald Tablet wrote:great work but lot`s of harsh sounds
need to put this through a spectrumanalyser to find out why many parts hurt my ears

composition wise / artistic wise very good
i love the sphere

thanks

Thanks for the compliments! As for hurting your ears... well I did pile a little bit of high-end on the EQ and compress the upper harmonics a bit in places to bring out the smaller nuances of the more etheric parts... so perhaps that's what's going on. If you see demon

faces in the spectrum-analyzer I had nothing to do with that.

mystahr · Post by **mystahr** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:47 pm

Let me start by saying that while downloading the discussion going on was rather interesting to read. And in a way with the music now finally playing on the monitors in a way inspiring as I personally tend to stick with chosen sounds to elaborate on that throughout the track... who knows what will happen.

As for what Remco (Emerald Tablet) said, yes there are a few frequencies on some of the sounds that hurt and cloud my ears a bit. I never really investigated that myself although I think they are somewhere in the 1,5 khz - 3,5 khz region.

I'm listening to Fields of the sun here now, and even though the feel brings forth a fair and summery feel, I must confess that I feel the music to lack a bit of coherence. Too much shifting from one element to the other, so the suggestion made earlier to glide between the elements is seconded here.

I personally prefer Moors of the Moon, although I couldn't really tell you why.

Thanks for sharing this though, and do keep experimenting.

Jack Dark - Soluna (An experiment in sound-story telling.)