Looking to make master MIDI clock computer

[eosophobia]

I am hoping the wealth of knowledge on this site can help. I am looking to make a master MIDI clock computer that may even run master effects. I then want to be able to sync up 3 or 4 additional computers as slaves running reason, reaper or bitwig (depending on who I am working with). End result being that we then would all be in sync. Allowing us to bring in our own sounds or songs without having to try to worry about tempo or timing be off. I was thinking Bitwig would be a good solution.Another idea was Linuxsampler in combination with ethernetMIDI. Maybe a external hardware MIDI cloc? Anyone done this or have any suggestions? I much prefer the master computer be linux but the others will be windows (versions 7 thru 10) One may be a Ipad. Any advice would be great. I feel like I have been from one end of the internet to the other looking for a solution to do this!!! Thanks!

P.S. The Reaper and Bitwig computers will be the newest versions. The Reason computers will be running ver.5, ver.8 and ver.10

P.S.S. Also any suggestions on a good mixer to partner up with this would be welcome!

[planetearth]

I am hoping the wealth of knowledge on this site can help. I am looking to make a master MIDI clock computer that may even run master effects. I then want to be able to sync up 3 or 4 additional computers as slaves running reason, reaper or bitwig (depending on who I am working with). End result being that we then would all be in sync. Allowing us to bring in our own sounds or songs without having to try to worry about tempo or timing be off. I was thinking Bitwig would be a good solution.Another idea was Linuxsampler in combination with ethernetMIDI. Maybe a external hardware MIDI cloc? Anyone done this or have any suggestions? I much prefer the master computer be linux but the others will be windows (versions 7 thru 10) One may be a Ipad. Any advice would be great. I feel like I have been from one end of the internet to the other looking for a solution to do this!!! Thanks!

P.S. The Reaper and Bitwig computers will be the newest versions. The Reason computers will be running ver.5, ver.8 and ver.10

P.S.S. Also any suggestions on a good mixer to partner up with this would be welcome!

MIDI doesn't have the resolution for what you're trying to do. If you're going to use a "master clock", you'd want something that works at a much higher resolution than MIDI. You also won't be able to do this with an iPad, unless you get an interface that accepts external sample sync (or MIDI sync, if you're going to try that).

MIDI runs at 32,250 bits per second. Sample word clocks run at up to 192,000 bits per second. They are much more accurate for timing information. And sample word clocks also have software and hardware built-in to reduce "jitter". Most MIDI time-code generators don't.

Steve

[No_Use]

MIDI doesn't have the resolution for what you're trying to do. If you're going to use a "master clock", you'd want something that works at a much higher resolution than MIDI. You also won't be able to do this with an iPad, unless you get an interface that accepts external sample sync (or MIDI sync, if you're going to try that).

MIDI runs at 32,250 bits per second. Sample word clocks run at up to 192,000 bits per second. They are much more accurate for timing information. And sample word clocks also have software and hardware built-in to reduce "jitter". Most MIDI time-code generators don't.
Steve

OP wants MIDI clock, not audio (sample) clock as I understand it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI_beat_clock

edit:
Ok, granted, sample word clocks run at much higher resolution and are less bound to drift but then again maybe MIDI clock suffices nonetheless for OP's needs as he's asking fo master MIDI clock specifically ?

If MIDI clock is sufficient maybe have a look at rtpMIDI (a network MIDI driver):
https://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/rtpmidi.html

edit2:
Seems like Reaper for example can't be synced to MDI clock though, so this would rule out this option.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=193589

[planetearth]

I understand that's what he wants, but for what he's trying to do, I don't think it will work. That's why I suggested sample word clock, which is actually designed to do what he wants (assuming you have audio interfaces that will accept external word clock).

Steve

[No_Use]

I understand that's what he wants, but for what he's trying to do, I don't think it will work. That's why I suggested sample word clock, which is actually designed to do what he wants (assuming you have audio interfaces that will accept external word clock).

Steve

Fair enough.

[planetearth]

I understand that's what he wants, but for what he's trying to do, I don't think it will work. That's why I suggested sample word clock, which is actually designed to do what he wants (assuming you have audio interfaces that will accept external word clock).

Steve

Fair enough.

Thanks.

And to the OP, I should have been more clear: I don't think the different DAWs will want to use MIDI time code as a "master" timing source. While they can do it if necessary, it simply fluctuates too much to base everything you do on it and not expect problems. SMPTE time code is made for what you're trying to do, but you'd need a SMPTE time code generator. And as I mentioned earlier, you can also do what you're trying to do with a sample word clock generator.

All that said, I still seriously doubt you'll be able to get the iPad to sync, because it's not designed to accept external clock sources for audio recording. (If you think about it, it's really just a huge phone--it's a small miracle it can do any of the things it does as it is!) I'm also not sure if Linux versions of Bitwig or other DAWs will allow external sample word clock, or if any of the audio interfaces available that support Linux will allow for external sample word clock, either.

I do believe this can all be done with either a master sample word clock, or using one DAW as the "timing master"--but I still think the iPad is going to be relegated to sitting on the sidelines and watching.

Hope that clears some of this up.

Steve

[ghettosynth]

You should try Link first. It's the kind of sync that most people looking to jam with electronic music are looking for. It's flexible and is not heavyweight or depend on MMC. Both Bitwig and Reason support it.

[eosophobia]

First off let me say a big thank you to all of you for your replies!! Lots of food for thought......
Any suggestions on what DAW would be best to use as a "timing master" and could it all be sync'ed with say cat6?


Also I honestly couldn't care less about getting the ipad into the mix.... I really am not a fan em anyway!

[eosophobia]

You should try Link first. It's the kind of sync that most people looking to jam with electronic music are looking for. It's flexible and is not heavyweight or depend on MMC. Both Bitwig and Reason support it.

"Link"? Can you post a link to it?

Has any one tried doing anything like this using netJACK1, netJACK2 etc......?

[thecontrolcentre]

Link is here ...
https://www.ableton.com/en/link/

[eosophobia]

Link is here ...
https://www.ableton.com/en/link/

Thank you!

[No_Use]

But Link would rule out REAPER again (currently at least).

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=172705

[eosophobia]

But Link would rule out REAPER again (currently at least).

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=172705

It looks like it would also rule out any version of REASON older than 9.1 but I may try to use Link in conjunction with rtpMIDI. It looks like there will be some latency and jitter issues but it will get us started. Still looking into some timecode and word clock gens....
I must say there seems to be way more options to achieve this than there was years ago. I have been away from music production for a few years now. Looks a lot has happened in a short time.

[ghettosynth]

But Link would rule out REAPER again (currently at least).

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=172705

It looks like it would also rule out any version of REASON older than 9.1 but I may try to use Link in conjunction with rtpMIDI. It looks like there will be some latency and jitter issues but it will get us started. Still looking into some timecode and word clock gens....
I must say there seems to be way more options to achieve this than there was years ago. I have been away from music production for a few years now. Looks a lot has happened in a short time.

Yes, sorry, I forgot that you need a new version of Reason. However, let me save you the hassle. rtpMidi will be painful and inconsistent as will almost any form of "midi clock." Wordclock and timecode will force you onto a specific timeline and run state. This is more appropriate when you have known parts that you want to sync across multiple machines. The only thing that works like Link is OSC sync which is what I used to use to sync Reaktor and Traktor. It's far more hassle to setup but it does use a similar lightweight approach where what is being communicated is an infrequent synchronization signal and the current BPM.

If you are going to use actual midi clock, which I don't recommend. Then I have had the best luck with just using hardware midi. Choose one of your Link clients to be the master and route a midi out to a midi-mult box to provide inputs to your other slaves and have those slaves sync to midi using an actual midi input. Just know that this is still going to be problematic and give you surprises. You will run into issues with clock stopping and starting and how different applications respond especially with respect to whether or not MMC is involved. My experience with Live is that it sucks ass trying to sync to midi clock but works great with Link.

Richie Hawtin prefers to manually sync for a number of reasons and this is common among DJs who have the experience to do so. What will work the best depends a lot on how you want to structure what you're doing. However, if you want things to be freeform, you are best off just using Link and limiting your setup to applications that support it. Get that working and then think about adding non-linked applications via some other sync mechanism. I would consider using a laptop with an application that supports link and can send midi clock or whatever else it is that you are using and setup that laptop such that all it does is provide sync services.

[ghettosynth]

All that said, I still seriously doubt you'll be able to get the iPad to sync, because it's not designed to accept external clock sources for audio recording. (If you think about it, it's really just a huge phone--it's a small miracle it can do any of the things it does as it is!) I'm also not sure if Linux versions of Bitwig or other DAWs will allow external sample word clock, or if any of the audio interfaces available that support Linux will allow for external sample word clock, either.

Many iPad apps support Ableton Link. I use it all the time in my own jam sessions in this way.

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, what most people are looking for with this in a jam setting is really the lightweight syncing offered by Link or OSC Sync. These methods send a synchronizing signal somewhat infrequently, e.g., at the start of every bar, and a message containing the current tempo. This is not at all "sample accurate", however, it much better serves what most people want if they are jamming.