KVR Audio

funky lime · Post by **funky lime** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:41 pm

Let's say hypothetically I buy a copy of, say, NI The Gentleman.

I record some tracks with it, and put them up for sale. Later on down the road, I decide to sell my license for The Gentleman.

Am I now legally required to take down the tracks that I already made with it in the past, because I no longer have a license to use that piano? Is that how software and sample library licenses work? Does this vary from one developer to another? If so, what is the "legal-ese" wording of this sort of clause?

Same question, but regarding synths and effect plugins. If I recorded an album that had a certain synth plugin used on it a bunch, with my own custom presets and everything, then I later sell that synth license. Does that mean I can't legally distribute those old songs of mine anymore? Or what if the license in question was for an EQ plugin, which I used to mix the album. Does that make a difference at all?

Sorry if these are dumb questions.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:53 pm

Your music is yours, whatever plugins or hardware you used to create it ... don't worry about it.

funky lime · Post by **funky lime** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:58 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:Your music is yours, whatever plugins you used ... don't worry about it.

I'm not too worried.

Honestly, I'm just more curious about the technicalities than anything else. It just seems overlooked and nebulous, while meanwhile, there's such a clear and hard stance on piracy or other theft of intellectual property (plagiarism, for example).

With an analog synth, I bought that synth. So yeah, my tools, my music. But for a soft synth? I didn't buy the synth, I bought a license to use it. I guess I just never really thought too much about what that license actually means specifically; I just pay the money and make the tunes. But then I see so much stuff for sale in that buy/sell forum, and it made me wonder: do we know exactly what it is we're selling when we do that license transfer? I mean, I know NI doesn't own my music because I used their piano (or do they? maybe i breezed through that EULA bit on the installer

). But technically, couldn't they come after me and say "Hey, take that song down. You don't have a license for that that piano anymore," and have it be legally valid?

(I know actually proving it is another story, and all that. Like I said, I'm just curious more than anything. And this is strictly a hypothetical situation)

I don't have a mind for EULA-speak, so maybe it is cut and dry, and I just didn't get the memo. Or maybe it's one of those things like driving 67 in a 65, where you're technically speeding but they'll never go after you for it?

herodotus · Post by **herodotus** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:13 pm

Every EULA I have ever seen would allow you use any instrument or samples you buy for "creating musical works" without reservation.

Companies that had a problem with recordings of formerly owned instruments would be much more likely to forbid license transfers than try to forbid keeping audio recordings after a license transfer, which could be a legal nightmare on many levels.

farlukar · Post by **farlukar** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:22 pm

Licensing issues aside, I don't think anyone will go to the trouble of putting together a legal defense of why the Van Halen "jump" sound you used was actually from some vsti and not an actual OB8.

Googly Smythe · Post by **Googly Smythe** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:00 pm

You're not actually "using" those plugins in those old songs, whether you still have a licence or not. You "used" them. So you don't need a licence.

Same would apply to new songs. You're only "using" them while reording/mixing/mastering MIDI. If you rendered all your MIDI tracks and channels to audio, and then did your mixing, you still aren't "using" those plugins. So no licence required.

Imagine sending your song, (as audio tracks) to be mixed by a pro - he'd have to have a licence for every known plugin since the dawn of time.

And no one would be able to listen to the songs - unless they had a licence for every plugin...

I think...

slipstick · Post by **slipstick** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:06 am

The license is to allow you use the "instrument" to create music. Once the music has been created and "recorded", i.e. fixed as audio, the instrument is no longer being used and the license is no longer required.

It's just like if you played a particular guitar on a recording and then sold the guitar. No-one would suggest you had to stop selling the recording.

Steve

AdvancedFollower · Post by **AdvancedFollower** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:15 am

What if you re-use the exported audio tracks in a remix or something?

slipstick · Post by **slipstick** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:14 am

Yeah, tricky. Perhaps people who make remixes have to own licenses for everything that was used to make the originals.

And how about samples? Perhaps you can't use a sample unless you own the instrument that was originally sampled.

How silly do you want to get?

Steve

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:27 am

AdvancedFollower wrote:What if you re-use the exported audio tracks in a remix or something?

No problem, as long as you own the copyright to that recording.

slipstick wrote:Perhaps you can't use a sample unless you own the instrument that was originally sampled.
How silly do you want to get?

No way. That would be silly indeed. You can rent a piano, sample it and use those samples as long as you like.

farlukar · Post by **farlukar** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:40 pm

I think the only legally dubious case would be when you extract waveforms from the ROM of a sample/wavetable-based synth. Otherwise, don't worry.

Can I still distribute older tracks if I sold my licenses for plugins/samples I used to make them?