KVR Audio

Inquisitor5775 · Post by **Inquisitor5775** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:16 am

http://www.users.on.net/~oblique/

Hi There friends. I have never posted my music up on the web before.

Here is some music I have been writing for my Church Group. I hope you enjoy listening to it.

Ash Rain is not quite finished. I would really appreciate some comments. It covers a large number of styles and moods/ contrast. Please be very critical as I need help to improve. (6 mins)

Choir (untitled) a choral piece using spectrasonics symphony of voices- I wrote this piece to learn how to use the library.

All music here is my own original work. I have many influences from orchestral- great romantic expressive music/ 20th centry , jazz/funk, and modern dance/trance ambient etc.

All music was done using Reason/Cubase sx. I can give more details about how thigns were done, but in short I recorded all parts myself from a midi keyboard, unless they were loops. Loops and original sounds were used seamlessly togther and tehre are very few loops that haven't been specifically altered for the track. The Ash Rain drum break in the middle uses about 16 loops all interplaying togther.

I hope you enjoy listening

Cheers

Tim

EDIT: post title to be in line with forum convention

Kim Lajoie · Post by **Kim Lajoie** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:46 am

Is your piece called "Australian composer"?

Forever,

Kim.

Shane Sanders · Post by **Shane Sanders** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:59 am

Just finished listening to the first piece. It has some really clean production for sure, and the drum programming had a lot of surprises. The use of the monk plainchant was cool, too.

I'm looking forward to more ideas from you.

VicDiesel · Post by **VicDiesel** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:18 pm

Listened to Ash Rain. Pretty solid stuff. However, my interest started flagging somewhere halfway through (where the female voice comes back in) where you start using more standard rhythms. I thought the track was pretty creative until then. Now it feels like 1/ the first half is an intro that goes on too long, and 2/ what then follows doesn't live up to the promise.

V.

Inquisitor5775 · Post by **Inquisitor5775** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Hi Guys thanks for the responses.

No none of my pieces are called australian composer

Thanks for listening: Tenneseevic- your comment was interesting. I would have thought the first section was the less creative part, as there weren't really any chord variations, until the second part.

ARe you saying you think the length of the track should be reduced?

EDIT: actually this coudl really be two separate pieces. inf act. I could keep the electronica separate fom the dance/vocals

VicDiesel · Post by **VicDiesel** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:26 pm

Inquisitor5775 wrote:Thanks for listening: Tenneseevic- your comment was interesting. I would have thought the first section was the less creative part, as there weren't really any chord variations, until the second part.

ARe you saying you think the length of the track should be reduced?

EDIT: actually this coudl really be two separate pieces. inf act. I could keep the electronica separate fom the dance/vocals

Yeah, it feels like two separate pieces, where I find the second, the dancey/vocal one the less interesting. I really liked the first half with just chord stabs and snatches of (breakbeat?) rhythms.

But it's your music. As long as you think the composition as a whole makes sense.

V.

Sielsynth · Post by **Sielsynth** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:52 pm

Wow! I really like this piece. Very clean production. What mastering software did you use? Look forward to hearing more. You by any chance a fan of World Wide Message Tribe? Not saying this reminds me of them just wondering. Is this going to be used for a "praise dance"? I think it will work quite well. The different movements lend themselves quite well to theatrical change.

Anyway, good work!

Reverend Rhythm · Post by **Reverend Rhythm** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:59 pm

I think Tennesseevic has a good point, but let me give a slightly different angle. I think the monks (Gregorian) stuff at the beginning was a little out of place. At the end I thought it could be developed even more. It seemed to me to fit at the end.

You actually might have too many ideas going on. Listen and analize some remixes and watch how they put things together. I also think some of your sounds (i.e. the dance piano) are maybe out of place for this song. Use more drama. You have great ideas, so don't get me wrong.

I don't usually comment on these things, but Ash Rain really interests me. When finished, it'd be something that I mighr buy. It just has to get to that finished stage. I want to hear it!

By the way, where did you get the monk sound? Did you record it or was it a sample? I love it!

Reverend Rhythm · Post by **Reverend Rhythm** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:08 pm

Tim,
I just listened to your choir piece. Good job!

Have you ever listened to Ralph Vaughn Williams? Check out his mass in g minor. Your choir piece has some great movement. Keep it up!

Inquisitor5775 · Post by **Inquisitor5775** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:42 pm

Thankyou All!!!

I will answer your questions!

First of all- you guys are very perceptive- I really have trouble with too many ideas in my music- ash rain is a good example of this! However it heppens a lot and I struggle with it in countless pieces, which I haven't put on to the web (mainly because they are all unfinished for this very reason.

Your advice to limit the scope seems good, and I guess what I have thought all along. I want people to enjoy the dance part as well as the jungle/editing part.

Sielsynth: thanks for your comments! The mastering is something I am learning- but my main passion is composing. hwoever the music was mastered quite barbarically I fear (some proper engineer might cringe) My music is made in reason and rewired to cubase. I have a setup with many mixers in reason feeding to the hardware interface channels. for example mixer one might have all the vocal samples and this will rewire to cubase. mixer two might be all the drums in the piece- diferent cubase channel.. mixer 3 might be all the ambient synths.

Then I apply to some (not all!!!) "master mixers" (in some case a mixer of reason sub- mixers) a unique multiband compression setting using cubase sx2's built in multiband compressor. I then run the singal through BBE's sonic maximiser plugin to compensate for frequency dependent phase shifting and to add birghtness and bass definition (I don't really understand how it works). Finally I have one final multiband compressor over the top of all of it.

This is my first attempt at writing unique and energetic worhips music, yes- I don't know world wide message tribe at all- I will check them out!

DKeenum. Very helpful comments. I think the probelm with the dance piano is there are too many songs fighting in this piece- I would liek to have the dance piano idea separate- I do like that style of dance music, but it seems a bit out of context here (which I agree with) Consider the middle dance section to be a separate piece in itself.. but developed and fleshed out. what do you think?

The Monk choir is built up from a combination of samples. the spoken words are intervals like up a perfect 5th from the tonic, and the backing monk voices I filled in the harmony. ALl these samples are from the spectrasonics symphony of voices library, imported into NNXT using propellerhead's own akai converter. And vaugn williams is a favourite composer of mine!

FInally thanks for your touching comments! I have been working on ash rain for months... its tiring but I want it to be finsihed, and if I can get TWO different but high quality pieces out then that would be cool!

Reverend Rhythm · Post by **Reverend Rhythm** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:38 pm

Think of your dance piece as a classical piece where you have a motif (short theme or lick)that is developed. That way you get continuity. You have a lot of that already. Try to analize what you have, and you'll begin to see what doesn't fit.

I don't think you have too much going on. Maybe start trying to use some eq (cut not boost). Especially low frequencies. The goal is for ever part to have it's sonic space. Read up on eq and practice. Remember that a little goes a long ways.

annode · Post by **annode** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:18 pm

Have to say that i`m a bit suspicious about ashrain.

It sounds as if you took someone elses piece and overlayed somethings of your own onto it.
No way I can be sure about it.
The reverb in the first part...and then later on...sounds pro...like a lexicon.
The timing in the first half is impeckable,but later,stuff in the background are not timed well at all.
And also, stuff that doesn`t seem to fit...does`nt have that lexicon wash to it.

I know I can`t say for sure about anything on mp3...but something seems odd here to me.

koorby · Post by **koorby** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:37 pm

Tim, this is EXCELLENT! Yes, the Spectrasonics SOV is on my shopping list too. Really well thought out, beautifully produced, nice mood changes, excellent feel. Definitely one I will play over and over again.

Hmmm, Tim Hall - I used to know a Tim Hall from way back - Aussie evangelist - no relation?

Anyway, let's hear MORE of your work; well done!

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:37 pm

Ok then mate, just had a listen to your track Ashrain. Very impressive work, I really think highly of this piece. The production is very good, with some nice little stutter trickery on the breaks. When i read that you'd used loads of multiband on the master buss my initial thought was 'uh-oh!', but it sounds great adding a certain brightness to the mix.

Music wise Im also a fan. There are plenty of nice little nuggets in this piece which i feel would make decent dance riffs all on there own! But, this kind of brings me to the my less positive thoughts - although there were several sweet motif's throughout the piece, i felt a little as though they were working independantly, with none of them standing out as the pieces main theme. The track lacked any kind of structure or 'purpose'. One minute we had a proggy breaks type thing, but all of a sudden it was like listening to a different piece entirely!

I think this track shows that you have some top talent as a composer and producer. The music was well written and very well produced. The structure did let this track down, but that isnt to say you couldnt remedy it without to much trouble. If you could manage to organise you thoughts and give some consideration to arrangement then you should in serious business. Maybe try writing some pieces in set styles, and adhereing strictly to form. I reckon this would benefit you greatly, cuz this seems to be a side of composition that you may have over looked.

Good stuff mate, luck forward to hearing the more of your work!

Inquisitor5775 · Post by **Inquisitor5775** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 1:58 am

Annode-

Thankyou for listening. Your comment is actually a bit troubling but it is understandable why you came to those conclusions as I will explain-

Certainly all of the music is my own work completely. I value my integrity- i have been writing music for most of my life, but it has only been recently that I have had the technology to realise my dreams. I worry constantly about the originality of my music- that what I do has been done before/ similar chords-similar instruments.

You are correct in saying that part of the music sounds like a different piece with my own stuff over the top- this is because Several key ideas in this piece HAVE COME from some of my own EARLIER pieces, which I have pulled apart and reconstituted to make this one. So that was very perceptive of you!

Consequently (as I have become to realise talking to ppl here) there are some competing conceptual ideas struggling for expression.

I don't know what a lexicon is, but the reverb is all Reason's advanced reverb. I am hesitant to give away too many secrets of my work, but the vocal line has a quarter note's worth of subtle pre-reverb and two delay lines to fill out the stereo field. I have used different reverb settings in different parts of the piece on different instruments, so it is likely you will hear differences if you listen carefully.

In addition the rich synth line at the start with the vocals is a hardware synth, and the rest are software.

The timing in the first aprt is almost exclusively quantised, whereas the second part is not quantised much at all- that coupled with the fact that the second half (particularly the bass and piano lines) were thrown together extremely hurredly in the past two days (and still needs a lot of editing) could be contributing to sloppiness in the performance.

I do have a great interest in rhythm and timing- I play the drums in real-life at my Church, and have played in stage bands and orchestras at competition level.
Every single drum stutter was programmed by hand, by me (yes it did take a very long time)

so in conclusion thankyou for voicing your thoughts- but it does feel hurtful when people suggest my months of hard work is not my own!!!

Koorby- Hi mate. No I am not the Tim Hall you know. I am 22 and live in adelaide, south australia. THanks for listening- more music soon!

Teeboy- I think in my attempts to innovate I have overlooked consistentcy, evidence by your comments and those of others, including Annode's. I do try to mix several styles together. a lot of my other music mixes full orchestral textures with trance etc.

As a result all my peices end up being SO LONG!! I struggle to cut them down by then I think of A new idea which I have to develop more, and this means editing and mixing takes much longer.

James Brown says- you should never waste a good musical idea in a piece of music, when it is good enough to be a separate piece on its own. I thin this advice applies to me!

Tim Hall

[Dance/Worship/Choir] Tim Hall- Ash Rain