Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

[V0RT3X]

I liked working with the original Synthsquad, but the newer ones are honestly kind of buggy. Sure they got newer FX and more modulation sources but they just aren’t very smooth to work with.

Geist 2 is the same. The GUI is laggy whenever I use it and that kind of throws me off. I liked the immediacy of the first one but it’s too bad that it lacks the poly rhythmic sequencer and Transmod system.

As for the discontinuation of Maul, Bloom, DCAM Dynamics and Etch? Well I think it’s too bad, as they all had potential to turn into something better.

[masterhiggins]

Doesn’t bfd itself not quite fit in with the Roli architecture? I wouldn’t imagine most people would prefer to program drums on squishy keys. It’s probably just a matter of sales for bfd to drop below a certain point for them to dump it.

[yellowmix]

Software is not an investment. Hardware arguably isn't either; everything stops working at some point in the future. Sure, vintage synths can be restored, but that's putting more capital into it. The glut of mass-produced instruments and the nostalgia of a generation who will eventually grow old and die can't sustain mass interest in them. There will certainly be enthusiasts with a few rare copies and perhaps a resurgence may occur and new builds like we see with the ondes martenot and virtual recreations but the lesson here is we have to learn to let go of things.

That said, there are reasonable expectations of how long software should be supported. FXpansion's products, by my count, have a lifespan of 6 years before being discontinued (but useable). This honestly isn't too bad when you compare it to other products. Sylenth1 at 10 years going is a champ, bested by Massive at 11 years, though Native Instruments killed off B4 at 9 years, and Kore lasted 5 years through 2 versions, Pro-53 at 7 years (but all are useable afaik). Camel Audio's Alchemy lasted for 6 years before being bought out by Apple. Most other products aren't old enough to use as a comparison. Diva's at 6 years.

Compare that to hardware synths and it's fantastic, as many productions runs were 2-3 years. However, end users have zero capability to restore/fix software. So Tremor having 4 years (I think), I agree, is relatively short.

But as others have detailed, this isn't everything. It's the direction and future of the company. But we don't know the business side of things. Many developers have failed or been bought out. There is a market glut. If you want continued maintenance, they need continued income. And the easiest way to do that (without WUP/subscriptions fees) is to introduce new products. But a flop can end a developer.

What we do know is that FXpansion has a lifeline that is guaranteeing maintenance on its current products for the near future. So we can enjoy the tools and what we produced with them for as long as we can use them as-is. That's what we're paying for. Camel was nice enough to provide a workaround for the online authorization. That's what I'd hope for from any company but it's not guaranteed (I won't buy Sonivox for this reason; they are still around but can't provide a workaround for their own legacy DRM).

I'm still using Amber from Synth Squad; there's no other divide-down like it. I don't see what would make it stop working for at least another 10 years (counting the next 2 bit architectures and Windows API iterations; Apple users don't have as much time), if ever, by running a virtual machine (Apples can do this, right?). So in that sense, software might be even more lasting than hardware. Do you think enthusiasts 50 years from now are going to perform with a softsynth from this era?

[Rockatansky]

Doesn’t bfd itself not quite fit in with the Roli architecture?

Maybe that's why they're running that "upgrade from BfD Eco" promo. Cash in on a soon-to-be-dead product before it goes. I'd like to think that's not what they're doing, because it would be the ultimate dick move. But at this point, who knows.

[plexuss]

FXP should consider selling the code and business for the discontinued products. why not? they could make some money from them, maybe do a licensing deal. to just kill the code off would be stupid.

[JunSev]

All software becomes unusable, for the most part. If you are using it for business you have to look at it from an accounting point of view to work out if its worth it. It's more subjective if you are using it for personal use - in which case you just have to make a judgement on if you got your money's worth. But eventually all software will become unusable unless its updated. There are no guarantees that all software will always be updated - its not economically feasible. This is one reason software is depreciated far faster than hardware in accounting (usually)

I have a lot of $$ invested in FXP including some recently discontinued products. Oh well, that's the way it goes with software. There are risks for sure. You have to take them into account. Or, go buy hardware.

Sorry, you are very very wrong, you are not taking in account the virtual machines that allows the user to use old operative systems, and why they have to be updated like always?, yeah is necessary for new function and bug fixes, but no necessarily means that will not work just because is old or the last update was 10 years ago.

Sometimes we can't expect the best from buggy plugins of course, but there are plugins efficiently developed that for sure will last for decades, you'll see...

[Teksonik]

Maybe that's why they're running that "upgrade from BfD Eco" promo. Cash in on a soon-to-be-dead product before it goes. I'd like to think that's not what they're doing, because it would be the ultimate dick move. But at this point, who knows.

As I said earlier..........

Let's see....I bought a product from you then you decide to stop supporting that product and now you want me to give you more money for another product ? Seems legit to me....where do I pay ?

[kiezum]

They discontinued 6 product that I bought from them. I submitted a support ticket, because I don't like the way they handled this. They didn't even send an e-mail to notify me.

The original Synth Squad was brilliant. I think that Andrew Simper (now Cytomic) played a big part in it. The first time I played with Synth Squad I was amazed that it sounded so real.

It was expected that this would happen. Roli has a lot of big investers behind them, who want to see a return on their investments. Nothing new under the sun.

[Terrafractyl]

Just to be a devil's advocate here....

Personally not one single fxpansion product ever clicked with me, (and I tried them plenty) that was until firstly equator and then most recently equator.
Admittedly I'm invested in Roli too haha as I have and a love a seaboard, but yeah something about the sound of the early plugs just always bugged me, and I found them basically unusuable. Strobe2 still doesn't do it for me. Cypher2 though is awesome.

So yeah I'm actually pretty happy with the way fxpansion are going. Sucks they couldn't be more diplomatic about the discontinued plugs though...

[Captain]

I am a longtime user of FXpansion products, but I have always had a sort of ambiguous relationship with them. On the other hand, there's great technology and innovation in many of their products, and many plugins look great on paper (and that's why I have kept buying their stuff). On the other hand, to put it bluntly, I have a feeling none of their products never quite fully work, or at least feel very unfinished and unpolished. Their GUIs have always looked like "coder graphics" more than something that someone actually designed (although some later plugins are definitely better). And there are often some idiotic small bugs that take forever to fix.

My first FXpansion product was the original BFD years ago. Again, great on paper, but for some reason, the HD streaming never seemed to work properly, and I always got dropouts (one of them even ended up on our first album...). The plugin had a lot of related configuration parameters, but adjusting them didn't seem to fix anything. Compare that to Addictive Drums, which was released just a little later. IIRC, it didn't have a single adjustable parameter related to streaming, but it didn't need any, because it always just worked out of the box, and felt really snappy and usable compared to BFD. OK, this might an unfair comparison and it's just a single old case, but the general feeling I got from this comparison seems to apply to all my experiences with FXpansion ever since.

The thing that bugs me most with FXpansion is the typical product cycle. A plugin is released. It has bugs. At some point they release a "public beta", with some things fixed, some not. This beta sits there for months, maybe even years. Maybe later another beta is released. At some point, the whole product kind of just fades into obscurity, with some beta being the latest released version, and then a new "version +1" is released, with a price tag and new bugs. (Case in point: the latest version of the original BFD is a public beta from 2009.)

And all this was before the ROLI acquisition and product discontinuation. That does not actually bother me that much, since Geist2 is pretty much the only FXpansion product I still use. But of course I wish they would continue supporting & developing it, because I like it very much, and it's still my go-to drum sample player and loop slicer when I need one.

[gentleclockdivider]

Imho the best Fx pansion products mostly relied on external coders
Synthsquad dsp engine = Andrew Simper (cytomic )
Guru ( remember ?) = Devine M achine , + steve duda
These were pretty solid products and almost bug free >
When the new wave of fx pansions plugins came , the overal user experience left a lot to be desired , buggy etc ...the acquisation by roli made things even worse
This used to be one of my favourite companies , not so any more

[Distorted Horizon]

Had also bought a lot from them Maul, Dynamics, Tremor, Geist, BFD, Strobe, Original Synth Squad and I fear that most of it will be discontinued.

They're all legacy now (except BFD3).

[Stefken]

All software becomes unusable, for the most part. If you are using it for business you have to look at it from an accounting point of view to work out if its worth it. It's more subjective if you are using it for personal use - in which case you just have to make a judgement on if you got your money's worth. But eventually all software will become unusable unless its updated. There are no guarantees that all software will always be updated - its not economically feasible. This is one reason software is depreciated far faster than hardware in accounting (usually)

I have a lot of $$ invested in FXP including some recently discontinued products. Oh well, that's the way it goes with software. There are risks for sure. You have to take them into account. Or, go buy hardware.

Sorry, you are very very wrong, you are not taking in account the virtual machines that allows the user to use old operative systems, and why they have to be updated like always?, yeah is necessary for new function and bug fixes, but no necessarily means that will not work just because is old or the last update was 10 years ago.

Sometimes we can't expect the best from buggy plugins of course, but there are plugins efficiently developed that for sure will last for decades, you'll see...

I tend to agree with this. And nobody says that you can't keep your old computer running when you buy a new one. I'm running Cypher 2 on Windows 7 here by the way and it's runs OK.

I do hope they will support Cypher 2 in an active way. When it was launched, FXpansion was very active on this forum but now they gave gone quiet. I do hope they will keep working actively on it as it has just started it's lifecycle and there are bugs to correct.

Once a product is stable, I for one, don't necessary expect updates. I do welcome them but when you buy hardware, it's not that they add features afterwards do they? The hardware stays with the same functionality when you bought it.

[Rastkovic]

That's not the gentle way to discontinue a product without a follow up, they already did this with DCAM Synth Squad a few years ago.

I keep this in mind, when they release a new product....

[jacqueslacouth]

Maybe that's why they're running that "upgrade from BfD Eco" promo. Cash in on a soon-to-be-dead product before it goes. I'd like to think that's not what they're doing, because it would be the ultimate dick move. But at this point, who knows.

As I said earlier..........

Let's see....I bought a product from you then you decide to stop supporting that product and now you want me to give you more money for another product ? Seems legit to me....where do I pay ?

I was actually about to pull the pin on the BFD upgrade but after reading this I think I will let it slide...besides, I have plenty of drum plugs already that can pretty much do what I need (just a bit of GAS I guess)