KVR Audio

xanthos · Post by **xanthos** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:38 pm

hi everyone!

I bring up a topic, which I guess many are running into...
first: nobody likes machine-gun sample playbacks, right?

So, I searched for some techniques how to load a sample into a sampler, and get some "humanization" and "randomness" into the sample - so if you play it every 1/8th note for example, every 1/8th note should sound not the same.

and I came up with the resolution: its not easy.

Idea 1:
Native Instruments Maschine
The inbuild sample synths are great, "Drumsynth" creates unique sounding drum sounds, and they integrated a "round robin" like engine which alternates the drum sounds so you get soft variances.
Downside: Its not working for your own samples.

Idea 2:
Native Instruments Battery
You can load your own sample, and activate the "Humanize" feature... its "okay"... it works 50% of the time, but its not perfect. I mean, even if you compare it to the Drumsynth from Machine I mentioned before, Maschine rocks way more. (Try 1/8th snare rolls with Battery and Humanization.... Maschine will sound better!)

So... what are your techniques for getting more realistic sample playback?
Important: I am searching a way to play MY OWN samples ... i am not looking for a "closed system" where I can only use the providers samples (like FXpansion's BFD - which has a anti machine gun mode.. which is nice.. but only for their integrated samples)

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:43 pm

I multi-sample my drums & then velocity layer them in Sampler or an Instrument Rack (or any sampler).

xanthos · Post by **xanthos** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:49 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:43 pm I multi-sample my drums & then velocity layer them in Sampler or an Instrument Rack (or any sampler).

Thats another possibility when you are using real drums or do some real recordings...
But what if you only have one file/version from your drum sound...

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:14 pm

You could try automating a filter using velocity from your midi controller, so the filter adds variety to the single sample.

Grace by One Small Clue has filters, LFOs & sequencers built-in, and its free ... http://www.onesmallclue.com/plugin/grace/

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:26 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:14 pm You could try automating a filter using velocity from your midi controller, so the filter adds variety to the single sample.

You may also tie the sample beginning to velocity. Usually, the beginning of drum samples is where more energy resides. If you modulate the sample beginning with velocity (moving the sample start closer to the beginning when played with more velocity, an more distant of the begining when the velocity is softer) you will have a natural way of avoiding a mechanical sound.

This together with filter cutoff (more velocity, more opened the filter becomes) will be probably enough.

audiojunkie · Post by **audiojunkie** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:44 pm

There were several good pieces of advice listed above (I especially love thecontrolcentre's suggestion about automating the velocity layer)! The one thing I would add that I don't see listed above, is to make sure you get a sampler that does round robins. The support for round robins was created especially to do away with the machine gun effect by playing a different version of the same sound every time the sound is played (it cycles through a set number). Look into TX16Wx as a possible solution for your problem.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:55 pm

audiojunkie wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:44 pm The one thing I would add that I don't see listed above, is to make sure you get a sampler that does round robins. The support for round robins was created especially to do away with the machine gun effect by playing a different version of the same sound every time the sound is played (it cycles through a set number). Look into TX16Wx as a possible solution for your problem.

Round robin woul be the logic answer... if it wasn't for this:

xanthos wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:49 pm But what if you only have one file/version from your drum sound...

No way to do round robin with just ONE sound. You will have to do it the old fashioned way (what we used to do when RAM was expensive and we had to squeeze the max possible out of just a few samples).

V0RT3X · Post by **V0RT3X** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:56 pm

xanthos wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:38 pm hi everyone!

I bring up a topic, which I guess many are running into...
first: nobody likes machine-gun sample playbacks, right?

I like machine-gun sample playback

audiojunkie · Post by **audiojunkie** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:14 pm

fmr wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:55 pm
audiojunkie wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:44 pm The one thing I would add that I don't see listed above, is to make sure you get a sampler that does round robins. The support for round robins was created especially to do away with the machine gun effect by playing a different version of the same sound every time the sound is played (it cycles through a set number). Look into TX16Wx as a possible solution for your problem.
Round robin woul be the logic answer... if it wasn't for this:
xanthos wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:49 pm But what if you only have one file/version from your drum sound...
No way to do round robin with just ONE sound. You will have to do it the old fashioned way (what we used to do when RAM was expensive and we had to squeeze the max possible out of just a few samples).

Whoops! I completely missed that! I thought it was strange that no one mentioned round robin. It was the first thing that came to my mind. Now I know why!

audiojunkie · Post by **audiojunkie** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:23 pm

I agree with everyone. Automating some form of modulation to the velocity would be one of the best ways to do it. Whether tying it to a filter, pitch, volume,sample beginning, etc. It can add a huge amount of change to a single sample......since the OP is using a single sample.

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:34 pm

Also, remember not to have playback of a sample cut off dead the previous sample - you need some fade out, time linked to original velocity is best (not always possible). Cutting dead adds to the gunning, of course.

SoundPorn · Post by **SoundPorn** » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:53 pm

Machine Gun doesn't bother me, but you can just modulate the velocity and pitch to fix it.

shonky · Post by **shonky** » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:27 am

If your sampler allows it, a tiny amount of FM applied via velocity, sample and hold or LFO might add some variation too.

xanthos · Post by **xanthos** » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:05 am

shonky wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:27 am If your sampler allows it, a tiny amount of FM applied via velocity, sample and hold or LFO might add some variation too.

That sounds interesting! Do you have any recommendation for an vst sampler that is able to FM?

shonky · Post by **shonky** » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:28 am

Well, I know you can do it in Ableton Sampler but not sure about others although I'd guess you could possibly use an audio rate LFO on the drum and then possibly use velocity to affect the depth of that FM modulation if the sampler allows it.

Another idea might be to route velocity to fine pitch as this might imitate the slight changes you'd get hitting a drum. Some light comb filtering or resonator if modulated correctly could also give some variation as these are both used in physical modeling of drums, although probably best to keep them mixed lowish if you still want to retain the original character of the sample.

Sampler with techniques against machine-gun-samples