These are the two I am torn between right now.
Rhino is more full-featured at a better price, and Sytrus has a tiny GUI....
But... Sytrus has Huge Aggressive Oscillators, try the Brass Rough Saw patch in the demo and play it on the lower registers to see what I mean.
What does the Tick (Spoon!) think?
Is there a way to make these sounds with Rhino?
It seems like right now, Rhino is best for atmospheres and pads, etc...
I'm just saying this from playing around with the demos, making new patches, listening up & down the keyboard, trying to recreate timbres on one then the other, etc...
I think the answer would be to buy both, I just don't have the funds and I really want to concentrate on one Synth to start.
Rhino Vs Sytrus
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- KVRAF
- 25015 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
you can't really compare the two (though Gol ripped off Rhino's ui) because they both sound completely different.
Anyway:
Sytrus costs much more than Rhino and Rhino has (to me)
a more unique sound - besides Rhino is easier to program - its multistage-envelopes are kick-ass
so I'd go for Rhino.
Anyway:
Sytrus costs much more than Rhino and Rhino has (to me)
a more unique sound - besides Rhino is easier to program - its multistage-envelopes are kick-ass
so I'd go for Rhino.
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- KVRAF
- 3388 posts since 29 May, 2001 from New York, NY
Well, nasty aggressive sounds are definitely possible with Rhino too. It's just that I haven't programmed many of these yet, mainly because my tastes go towards metallic, spooky ambient pads. However, there's a DX7-II bank under construction, with hard screaming leads. And there's the upcoming moog banks by Daniel, these will blow your ears off - he will have mp3's demos available soon.
'Tick
'Tick
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- KVRist
- 457 posts since 30 Jun, 2003 from cinci, oh
rhino vs sytrus. you cannot go wrong with either. i share your sentiment on sytrus gui being too small.
both of these are difficult; options spread out all over the place, and organized the way a computer thinks (not surprizing).
i suggest you also demo eJ, *especially* if you prefer the strong leads / basses over the evolving pads / atmospheres. eJ has the same sound quality, and its strong suite is accessibility -- it is the first and only 6 osc synth (FM or otherwise) which i find truely intuitive/inspiring to work with. another important strong point of eJ over the other two is cpu usage -- about 1/3 in back-to-back (try it and see for yourself). eJ's cons are, it lacks sysex import and lacks the endless option lists of rhino/sytrus. Then again, eJ is only $50.
in the end, you may find you want one of either rhino or sytrus (for the landscapes), *plus* eJ (for the bread/butter sounds).
both of these are difficult; options spread out all over the place, and organized the way a computer thinks (not surprizing).
i suggest you also demo eJ, *especially* if you prefer the strong leads / basses over the evolving pads / atmospheres. eJ has the same sound quality, and its strong suite is accessibility -- it is the first and only 6 osc synth (FM or otherwise) which i find truely intuitive/inspiring to work with. another important strong point of eJ over the other two is cpu usage -- about 1/3 in back-to-back (try it and see for yourself). eJ's cons are, it lacks sysex import and lacks the endless option lists of rhino/sytrus. Then again, eJ is only $50.
in the end, you may find you want one of either rhino or sytrus (for the landscapes), *plus* eJ (for the bread/butter sounds).
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1529 posts since 12 Jun, 2004 from Portland, OR
EJ has the same demo issues, so I will have to try it out in a host.
Rhino has it all over Sytrus in features.
Sytrus hasn't got Midi Learn, you have to reverse velocity curves on each osc to get it to stop reacting to velocity, Rhino has a bigger gui and more OSC features.
But it's the raw sound of the sytrus OSCs that pulled me in.
Is it because Rhino is a Sample PLayback FM synth?
Rhino has it all over Sytrus in features.
Sytrus hasn't got Midi Learn, you have to reverse velocity curves on each osc to get it to stop reacting to velocity, Rhino has a bigger gui and more OSC features.
But it's the raw sound of the sytrus OSCs that pulled me in.
Is it because Rhino is a Sample PLayback FM synth?
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- KVRist
- 376 posts since 8 Apr, 2004 from Portland, OR
I've had Sytrus for quite a whil now.....
Rhino definitely has the best GUI. No competition. I prefer the way it is laid out in Sytrus, but its too darn small. It was a mild annoyance at first, now it bugs me quite a bit. After checking out the interface in Rhino 2 it made it even more difficult going back to Sytrus.
Features....hmmm. I think they both have some good things that the other doesn't. For what I want to do, I prefer the features of Sytrus. I'm still considering getting Rhino at some point though, they have enough differences to justify buying it and defending myself from accusations of gear lust
MIDI learn would be pretty good to have on Sytrus, but its further down the list for me. There are just the mappable XY controllers, which is OK for most stuff - I don't find it too limiting for expression while playing. I'm not even sure how you could map stuff for programming patches......how could that be done on multi-stage envelopes? Or a knob for each of the FM dials. Yikes!
Anyway, my worthless 2c.
Rhino definitely has the best GUI. No competition. I prefer the way it is laid out in Sytrus, but its too darn small. It was a mild annoyance at first, now it bugs me quite a bit. After checking out the interface in Rhino 2 it made it even more difficult going back to Sytrus.
Features....hmmm. I think they both have some good things that the other doesn't. For what I want to do, I prefer the features of Sytrus. I'm still considering getting Rhino at some point though, they have enough differences to justify buying it and defending myself from accusations of gear lust
MIDI learn would be pretty good to have on Sytrus, but its further down the list for me. There are just the mappable XY controllers, which is OK for most stuff - I don't find it too limiting for expression while playing. I'm not even sure how you could map stuff for programming patches......how could that be done on multi-stage envelopes? Or a knob for each of the FM dials. Yikes!
Anyway, my worthless 2c.
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- KVRAF
- 7886 posts since 24 Feb, 2003 from Earth, USA
I wrote up reviews for both Sytrus and Rhino over at Trax if you'd like to take a read of a little more in depth look and considerations as well.
http://www.traxmusic.org under reviews.
Devon
http://www.traxmusic.org under reviews.
Devon
Simple music philosophy - Those who can, make music. Those who can't, make excuses.
Read my VST reviews at Traxmusic!
Read my VST reviews at Traxmusic!
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- KVRAF
- 4749 posts since 15 Jul, 2001 from Holmfirth, West Yorkshire, U.K
BigTick all the way.
top support, fair price, nice developer
to me it blows sitrus out of the water.
top support, fair price, nice developer
to me it blows sitrus out of the water.
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- KVRAF
- 12235 posts since 18 Aug, 2003
I'm with topaz on this, too, although not that I have anything against Sytrus.
One feature that I appreciate with Rhino that I think is often overlooked is that it can also be used as a standalone app. Not critical, but in some instances, especially when just designing patches, it is very convenient.
As for basses and screaming leads, Rhino can do them quite well, especially because the filters sound so great. I think we forget because once you have a less dynamic-over-time type sound, it is easy to just keep going with it and fiddling with envelopes. Learn when to stop and you'll be able to get big sound.
Cheers,
Steve
One feature that I appreciate with Rhino that I think is often overlooked is that it can also be used as a standalone app. Not critical, but in some instances, especially when just designing patches, it is very convenient.
As for basses and screaming leads, Rhino can do them quite well, especially because the filters sound so great. I think we forget because once you have a less dynamic-over-time type sound, it is easy to just keep going with it and fiddling with envelopes. Learn when to stop and you'll be able to get big sound.
Cheers,
Steve
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- KVRian
- 588 posts since 14 Feb, 2003 from Rural splendour (Up North, England)
Well...... I'm a long time FL Studio (back from v2.7 when it was Fruityloops) and I'm a big fan of Imageline as developers but I just fell in love with Rhino - I downloaded the demo and ordered it later the same night.
Rhino 2 is a step up from Rhino - I used to own a DX-7 (Mark 1) so I love the improved DX-7 import capabilities, though they are just very thin icing on a particularly scumptious cake
Regards,
Derek.
Rhino 2 is a step up from Rhino - I used to own a DX-7 (Mark 1) so I love the improved DX-7 import capabilities, though they are just very thin icing on a particularly scumptious cake
Regards,
Derek.
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- KVRist
- 273 posts since 5 Mar, 2003 from US
I worked on the Sytrus beta and learned it quite well. It does sound different than Rhino so it comes down to a matter of taste there.
However, Rhino 2 is much more flexible and easier to program. Try using the additive generators on both units to see what I mean. It's like a Cadillac vs. a Yugo!
I love to program and have both synths but you won't see me releasing banks for Sytrus anytime soon. Spend time with the demos and do more than just scroll the presets; then you'll make the best choice for you.
However, Rhino 2 is much more flexible and easier to program. Try using the additive generators on both units to see what I mean. It's like a Cadillac vs. a Yugo!
I love to program and have both synths but you won't see me releasing banks for Sytrus anytime soon. Spend time with the demos and do more than just scroll the presets; then you'll make the best choice for you.
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- KVRAF
- 2217 posts since 15 Jul, 2003
i buy synths based on sound, more than features or programmability (though they do reckon on the equation somewhere)
rhino's sound: from the very first time I heard it there was no question I needed to own that sound.
sytrus sound: to my ears (which true may be somewhat damaged) sound clogged in the mid-range, esp. for an 'fm' synth. This mid-range buildup sounds thick vs. the transparency of rhino. some people like (because there are a number of synths that have this quality that are very popular that I will never own or use (crystal, z3ta, supewave, synth1)
but there are also a number of synths with 'transparent' sound quality much more like rhino, most of the NI synths, Tera, albino is sort of the middle of the scale standard for me. That's about as thick as I'll go.
when i buy a synth I demo it in a mix with other synths I know I'll be using and see how it fits. i would suggest doing that and listening with tired ears and fresh ears.
rhino's sound: from the very first time I heard it there was no question I needed to own that sound.
sytrus sound: to my ears (which true may be somewhat damaged) sound clogged in the mid-range, esp. for an 'fm' synth. This mid-range buildup sounds thick vs. the transparency of rhino. some people like (because there are a number of synths that have this quality that are very popular that I will never own or use (crystal, z3ta, supewave, synth1)
but there are also a number of synths with 'transparent' sound quality much more like rhino, most of the NI synths, Tera, albino is sort of the middle of the scale standard for me. That's about as thick as I'll go.
when i buy a synth I demo it in a mix with other synths I know I'll be using and see how it fits. i would suggest doing that and listening with tired ears and fresh ears.
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tony tony chopper tony tony chopper https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3103
- KVRAF
- 3561 posts since 20 Jun, 2002
for each feature you tell me rhino has & sytrus doesn't, I'll tell you 2 features sytrus has and rhino doesn'tRhino is more full-featured
sytrus is indeed more expensive for non-FL customers, but can be as low as 3x (around $40) less expensive for FL XXL customers. Down to 3x less expensive and up to 1/2 more expensive depending on what you already own.at a better price
I 'ripped' FM7's layout. I wanted to do some kind of better FM7, and hadn't tried rhino yet. When I tried rhino, it indeed looked similar, that probably just means rhino ripped FM7 as well.you can't really compare the two (though Gol ripped off Rhino's ui)
unless you're only talking about the included presets, it just can't be for a FM synth. There's only 1 way to do FM, it's not like different filters. The same settings in any FM synth with the same shapes (let's take sines) will give you the same result. And if the presets aren't EQ to your taste, there's a built-in EQ anyway.sytrus sound: to my ears (which true may be somewhat damaged) sound clogged in the mid-range
sytrus has a small GUI. For some like me it's a pro, for others it's a con. I definitely have something against oversized UI's.Sytrus has a tiny GUI
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- KVRAF
- 1949 posts since 21 Mar, 2003 from Labrador
Many if not most people here do not own FLgol wrote:sytrus is indeed more expensive for non-FL customers, but can be as low as 3x (around $40) less expensive for FL XXL customers. Down to 3x less expensive and up to 1/2 more expensive depending on what you already own.at a better price
nor do they care to. They use Logic,Cubase,Energy XT, Tracktion, Orion, etc,etc. Do you not care to sell more synths? Very poor business decision.
[/quote]sytrus has a small GUI. For some like me it's a pro, for others it's a con. I definitely have something against oversized UI's.
I bet you only use Sytrus on a 1024 x768 screen. Try using Sytrus at 1280 x 1024 or 1600 x 1200-then you'll see what people are talking about. 17" and 19"
monitors are quite common in today's world, especially for use with music apps. And those monitors use 1280 and 1600 screens in order to maximize screen real estate.
Take a tip from Big Tick's book: listen to what your customers are saying. It does tend to sell more!
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- KVRist
- 376 posts since 8 Apr, 2004 from Portland, OR
"sytrus has a small GUI. For some like me it's a pro, for others it's a con. I definitely have something against oversized UI's."
My apologies. I should have been more specific in my criticism of the GUI size. I can live with most of the GUI being smaller than I would prefer....but its the additive generator (as mentioned in the review I did, and by somebody here) that could be improved. It would be a cool addition if there was a button to view that at a larger size. Please, gol? Please?
EDIT: Just in response to the above post by DB, and further to my point. I am running on an LCD at 1280*1024. At this res, I do think my points above are true and go along with DB's view.
My apologies. I should have been more specific in my criticism of the GUI size. I can live with most of the GUI being smaller than I would prefer....but its the additive generator (as mentioned in the review I did, and by somebody here) that could be improved. It would be a cool addition if there was a button to view that at a larger size. Please, gol? Please?
EDIT: Just in response to the above post by DB, and further to my point. I am running on an LCD at 1280*1024. At this res, I do think my points above are true and go along with DB's view.