u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

[sacer]

other soundsets are the advantage of multi layer. Like refx nexus, lush101, avenger or rapid, you get andvanced already layered sounds and sequences.
What would be also cool is something like prism, which combines all rob papen products in 4 layers with effects. The same idea for u-he would be really cool, so that you can layer all u-he synths, effects and maybe later his drumcat and get advanced layered sounds by your favourite Sounddesigner.
I think these advanced sounds are the success of avenger and nexus, because the most basic stuff sounds not different compared to other synths like sylenth, spire or hive. The layered arps and sequenced sounds give people the outstanding tools, the don’t find anywhere else

[enCiphered]

What would be also cool is something like prism, which combines all rob papen products in 4 layers with effects. The same idea for u-he would be really cool, so that you can layer all u-he synths, effects and maybe later his drumcat

At the moment, there is no cpu to handle such unique task

[pdxindy]

Meanwhile, I can already layer u-he synths in my DAW anytime I want.

[HcDoom]

Never understood need for layers, when basically you can layer anything you want in your daw. This only complicates things for devs...

[egbert101]

Never understood need for layers, when basically you can layer anything you want in your daw. This only complicates things for devs...

It's good for very clever sound designers, and therefore, for showing off impressive presets that will likely sell the synth.

[Examigan]

On the other hand, having multiple sequencers acting as modulation sources within one synth/layer to control different things may be very useful.

Yep, absolutely. Working on that as we speak!

I think ill wait for the actual v.2 release to see what it all finally looks like, but I have to say that Hive becomes more and more tempting.

It won't be overly different. The UI won't be monochromatic anymore (e.g. FX will be colour coded, therefore much easier to edit). I'm sneaking in my utterly simplified take on Make Noise Maths. Just 4 knobs and 4 drop downs (as of now...), properly labelled. You won't notice these unless you look carefully.

I'm furthermore trying (!) to sneak in a single (!) 8-step baby version of what's called "Performer" in Massive, or "Stepper" (I think?) in Spire. Only, this one produces 4 individual control signals at once. It's like, while you only have very few steps to edit (extensively edit - including ratchets and smoothly morphing shapes!), you can make 4 different selections of these steps and run them parallel at different speeds and order. That's what I'm working on, and so far I'm very happy. I think it's going to be the fastest way to playfully create complex modulations (or just additional envelopes/LFOs) in any such synth. We just really, really, really have to make sure it fits Hive and does exactly what we need.

This sounds very interesting!
You mentioned Massive and Spire, but I wonder if you've checked out Audiaire's Zone synth?

[Examigan]

Never understood need for layers, when basically you can layer anything you want in your daw. This only complicates things for devs...

I think 2 layers (at least) would be cool for any synth. It can't hurt.

[mike_the_ranger]

Never understood need for layers, when basically you can layer anything you want in your daw. This only complicates things for devs...

It makes the need for human interaction and creativity even smaller since sounddesigners can sell their 1 finger song presets And devs have an excuse for the mostly bad cpu performance. It's not bad coding, it's the layers

[tony10000]

Never understood need for layers, when basically you can layer anything you want in your daw. This only complicates things for devs...

It makes the need for human interaction and creativity even smaller since sounddesigners can sell their 1 finger song presets And devs have an excuse for the mostly bad cpu performance. It's not bad coding, it's the layers

There is nothing inherently wrong with layers. Plenty of synths have them (Dune 2/3, Synthmaster, Omnisphere, Parawave Rapid, LuSH101, etc.) And you are free to use them or not.

[Urs]

I think "Impressive presets sell!" is short sighted. I put against it: "Usable presets keep!"

The topic of what's successful and all that is solely based on assumptions. There's simply no evidence that "multi layering" has any long term effect on the number of sales of a product. To the contrary, I would assume that extreme show-off presets mainly create what we call "impulse buys". Impulse buys are more likely to lead to buyers remorse, and thus to license transfers.

Maybe, if we do a customer survey later this year, we can study what our user base wants, and what it really opposes. My gut feeling: If there's a choice for either more complex cinematic presets or more instantly usable bread'n'butter ones, latter will win by a mile.

[tony10000]

I think "Impressive presets sell!" is short sighted. I put against it: "Usable presets keep!"

The topic of what's successful and all that is solely based on assumptions. There's simply no evidence that "multi layering" has any long term effect on the number of sales of a product. To the contrary, I would assume that extreme show-off presets mainly create what we call "impulse buys". Impulse buys are more likely to lead to buyers remorse, and thus to license transfers.

Maybe, if we do a customer survey later this year, we can study what our user base wants, and what it really opposes. My gut feeling: If there's a choice for either more complex cinematic presets or more instantly usable bread'n'butter ones, latter will win by a mile.

I don't mind the "show-off" cinematic presets. They can be easily modified to produce "bread and butter" sounds by simply turning off the arp or changing some parameters.

As a sound designer, I find them to be valuable tools to learn more about the synth's capabilities and to pick up some tips along the way.

And they do sell synths. I remember how my friend, Eric Persing's "Digital Native Dance" sold D50s. I don't see how they can produce buyer's remorse unless the buyer failed to listen to the other 900 factory patches.

[Urs]

You mentioned Massive and Spire, but I wonder if you've checked out Audiaire's Zone synth?

I have looked at it. I guess it has its place and someone had to do it, but the a-sequencer-per-parameter concept is on the opposite side of Hive on the conceptual spectrum.

We intend to make Hive available for *some* stuff like that, but then again we have to ask ourselves, how many such presets need exactly that level of control and how many could just as well have resulted from a simpler structure and mabye a few random modulators thrown in?

I'm very sceptical towards complex modulators, particularly evolving ones, because they have so much potential for frustration. If you have to listen to a sound for a minute or two, how many nuances can you tweak after that time, listening again and again, until you settle with "good enough"? - I think the number of hours wasted on sound design increases exponentially with the level of control over how things evolve. Even comparing different versions of the same preset becomes tedious and difficult.

This is why I want to try a playful approach which gamifies (is that a word?) complexity. You simply don't have any control beyond the simplicity of the modules and the logic of your patch. Little changes have big impact and cater for moments of surprise. What I hope for is, swapping meticulous control for instant variety, and thus tediousness for fun.

[tony10000]

duplicate

[Urs]

I don't mind the "show-off" cinematic presets. They can be easily modified to produce "bread and butter" sounds by simply turning off the arp or changing some parameters.

As a sound designer, I find them to be valuable tools to learn more about the synth's capabilities and to pick up some tips along the way.

And they do sell synths. I remember how my friend, Eric Persing's "Digital Native Dance" sold D50s. I don't see how they can produce buyer's remorse unless the buyer failed to listen to the other 900 factory patches.

Sure. They can be modified. In Hive, you switch the sequencer off and you still have the same patch. Even the modulators in the sequencer can be reproduced using MIDI/DAW without further editing. We have thought this through before we did it in Hive, based on the experience we have with built-in sequencers which can not do that (e.g. Zebra, or certain complex ones in certain other synths).

However, we're going in circles. The other thing you can do to make a show-off-preset usable is to mute the surplus layers until you get something which fits in your mix. Which brings us back to square one, and the question of how large the difference is between "sounds Hive is pretty good at" and "useful sounds which Hive simply can't touch without adding feature X of synth Y".

[Ploki]

I like bread'n'butter presets more. It takes less work to adapt them to your particular needs than cinematic presets.

it's one thing i dislike about Alchemy. It's either a preset synth, or "start from scratch" thing. (With start from scratch i usually just use it as a granular sampler.) with presets they're on 8 layers with 4 sources and 50 modded parameters. good luck getting anything done with that.