Do you prefer a fast workflow over a slower methodical one?

[V0RT3X]

Just curious, but I've started to realize I'm a bit of a control freak with my sound and I really enjoy having a LOT of control even if it ends up taking me 30 minutes to make one sound.

Of course that said I'm more of a sound designer than a musician, anyhow I'm curious what others have to say over this.

Do you prefer to just load up pre-made sounds so you can work fast, or do you like to tweak and customize your sounds. Or do you spend a ton of time tweaking your presets so you can work fast later?

Just interested in what people do.

[BONES]

All I want to do is have a finished song. If I could press one button to get it, I'd be over the moon. I find production boring and tedious. It is far and away the least attractive aspect of making music.

That said, I won't make sacrifices for the sake of expediency so if I need to tweak a sound for 30 minutes, that's what I'll do, although I am far more likely to try a dozen different sounds and/or instruments than to spend that much time trying to make the wrong sound work. But to me it is always work and I don't enjoy it.

[jancivil]

If I work fast in the composing, it means I'm really getting off on the sound. Chances seem good that if this is true, I have done some things.
That's not true by itself. So it depends.

Most of the time I work on the sound in terms of the design of it, in an 'orchestration' phase, which I really do enjoy doing.
Then there's mixing. Someone once said to me 'There is no finished mix, there are only abandoned mixes.' which works as a truism for me.

And, I mix while 'writing', there is a basic good first draft of the mix by the time the MIDI is said and done. Then there is a phase where I present the thing which is partly so I can get paranoid about the mix.

[jancivil]

"making the wrong sound work", yeah, you have to cut your losses here.

[Bombadil]

Coming from a background of ping-ponging 2 cassette decks, to using 4 track cassette recorders, with very limited gear, I prefer a fast workflow. Now I am one of those people who gets overwhelmed by too many choices. I need to have more confidence in my judgement, and get out of my own way. Being a perfectionist sucks sometimes.

[jancivil]

Those particular limitations are why I enjoy having a larger palette and the lessened pressure in being able to delete the shit.

I come really from a background of a live musician, so 'fast workflow' can mean 'real-time', or now it can mean real-time and I'm 90% there but I can edit it and you don't know where I f**ked it up.

[Bombadil]

Yeah, I was mostly a performer until my mid-20s, when I had to make the choice between that and getting the grades to get into graduate school. Still, I've always suffered from 'red-light syndrome,' and though I could play a song through live without problems, as soon as the 'record' button gets hit, I screw up. Which is one reason why I love quick swipe comping in Logic. I can just sit back, relax, and get the take I want. Also, I stopped doing covers around that time to focus on original stuff, some of which is, imo, quite good, and some...isn't. My best friend and I used to manage to record and mix a song in 1-2 days, tops. A song I worked on in the summer took me a month.

[foosnark]

Do you prefer to just load up pre-made sounds so you can work fast, or do you like to tweak and customize your sounds. Or do you spend a ton of time tweaking your presets so you can work fast later?

I tend to have three modes of working:

Exploration: jamming, trying out patch ideas or new gear or software demos... aka f**king around.

"Song mode": in which I do not f**k around. I will go from nothing to a finished stereo WAV in a single session of... maybe 2-5 hours? (I haven't timed myself.) The whole process is about being spontaneous and decisive -- there is no room for perfectionism or extended "what if" tweaking.

This includes patching from scratch (Eurorack, pedals, and/or software). For me, sound design (which includes effects and mixing) is an inherent part of the composition, and a preset sound makes no more sense than a preset melody.

If it doesn't work out, and sometimes it doesn't, I abandon it. And then about 1/4 of the stuff that I finish at this stage doesn't get released because I decide later it's just not that interesting, or doesn't fit with the style of music I want under the Starthief name.

Editing: in which I am as meticulous as I have to be, and will spend 90 minutes dealing with one stubborn click if it's bothering me.

So it's sort of a "write drunk, edit sober" philosophy. It works well for me, maybe because of a jazz background.

The book Art & Fear has a story about a ceramics class which the professor splits in two. The first group is told their entire grade will be based on the creation of one, perfect pot. The second group is told their grade will be based on the total number of pots they finish. At the end of the semester, the first group doesn't have one decent piece of pottery among them, and the second group is pretty good.

Admittedly I didn't read that book until after I was already putting that into practice. Focusing on improving the next song based on observing the last ten -- instead of trying to improve one song I haven't finished yet -- has paid off.

[donkey tugger]

as soon as the 'record' button gets hit, I screw up.

Just stick some more shit over the top of it to hide it..

[lfm]

In a daw I think I prefer total control if workflow is consistent.

But when fiddling with own patches in a synth - I like giving "accidents" a chance too.

I've been looking at Prophet VS that had a joystick to mix sources over time allowing a unique accident make a new oscillator wave table kind of. So it's dynamic movement that makes it happen - not just one position. Virtually impossible to replicate - that can be fun.
http://www.vintagesynth.com/sci/pvs.php

Don't know if there are modern versions of this style?
Thinking hardware then - it could be a reason to get another synth.

[Bombadil]

as soon as the 'record' button gets hit, I screw up.

Just stick some more shit over the top of it to hide it..

My 27" iMac might disapprove. Strange that I have less anxiety performing for people than I do for me, my DAW, and I.

[Hink]

as soon as the 'record' button gets hit, I screw up.

Just stick some more shit over the top of it to hide it..

Strange that I have less anxiety performing for people than I do for me, my DAW, and I.

Punny

[Bombadil]

[V0RT3X]

I tend to have three modes of working:

Exploration: jamming, trying out patch ideas or new gear or software demos... aka f**king around.

I do this "alot".

I often find myself exploring everything and learning how a product/workflow actually "works" so I've spent .. so much time in this phase I think. Since I don't have a lot of formal musical training in theory or composition I often find myself thinking more like a sound designer/engineer. If i was going to actually improve on this, I would probably create a organized workflow with end goals in mind like creating a sound bank for example.

"Song mode": in which I do not f**k around. I will go from nothing to a finished stereo WAV in a single session of... maybe 2-5 hours? (I haven't timed myself.) The whole process is about being spontaneous and decisive -- there is no room for perfectionism or extended "what if" tweaking.

This includes patching from scratch (Eurorack, pedals, and/or software). For me, sound design (which includes effects and mixing) is an inherent part of the composition, and a preset sound makes no more sense than a preset melody.

If it doesn't work out, and sometimes it doesn't, I abandon it. And then about 1/4 of the stuff that I finish at this stage doesn't get released because I decide later it's just not that interesting, or doesn't fit with the style of music I want under the Starthief name.

For me this is the hardest part, and maybe it's because of my ADHD but I often find it very hard to sit down and finish a song on my own. When I'm working with another person who is focused and driven i can often finish a song, but I've never really found anyone local to work with .. yet.

I also hear you on the mixing being part of the sound design process. I often work by building my synth patches / music parts first and then tweak them "if" necessary using mixing tools. I still have a shit ton to learn though!

Editing: in which I am as meticulous as I have to be, and will spend 90 minutes dealing with one stubborn click if it's bothering me.

So it's sort of a "write drunk, edit sober" philosophy. It works well for me, maybe because of a jazz background.

I don't think I've ever spent 90 minutes with a click, I often spend my time trying to create a "feeling" with the sound. If the sound doesn't capture a certain feeling I will give up and just go some where else. As for the "write drunk, edit sober" philosophy most of my worst stuff was done doing that

The book Art & Fear has a story about a ceramics class which the professor splits in two. The first group is told their entire grade will be based on the creation of one, perfect pot. The second group is told their grade will be based on the total number of pots they finish. At the end of the semester, the first group doesn't have one decent piece of pottery among them, and the second group is pretty good.

Admittedly I didn't read that book until after I was already putting that into practice. Focusing on improving the next song based on observing the last ten -- instead of trying to improve one song I haven't finished yet -- has paid off.

Interesting book I might have to check it out! Thanks for sharing!

[V0RT3X]

All I want to do is have a finished song. If I could press one button to get it, I'd be over the moon. I find production boring and tedious. It is far and away the least attractive aspect of making music.

That said, I won't make sacrifices for the sake of expediency so if I need to tweak a sound for 30 minutes, that's what I'll do, although I am far more likely to try a dozen different sounds and/or instruments than to spend that much time trying to make the wrong sound work. But to me it is always work and I don't enjoy it.

Interesting

So what's the important end result for you in having a finished song? Is it having a song that pleases the audience? Or something that pleases you? Or just a happy middle ground between the two.

I personally find that when I follow a formula that pleases others It becomes tedious to me. I pretty much prefer to just focus on my making stuff that makes me go "whoa that was cool"

This could also explain why I've never actually finished an album or had any real interest in performing my stuff live too.