Best Headphones for Mixing

[jochicago]

I’m asking in the Effects forum for 2 reasons:
1. I want to have a conversation from a perspective of advanced mixing with effects
2. I’m also wondering how the headphones pair up with a plugin for headphone corrections

I’m currently using $300 studio monitors and Samson SR850 cans for a second reference. However, I fee like I’m missing a lot of detail that other people hear with ease. For instance, I watch Pensado show some effects and he’s like “oh wow, big difference”, and I’m thinking “are you sure you clicked the bypass?”. Thing is, Pensado is not a spring chicken. Human hearing diminishes with age much as anything else, so he shouldn't have that over me. I get that his ears are way better trained than mine, and there’s Youtube compression in the way, but still he’s clearly hearing much more than me.

Also when comparing my own plugins, like the McDSP 6050. Sometimes I’m barely hearing a difference between the 10 models of VERY different units. I feel like there’s a world of detail in the frequencies that are just completely lost in my hearing tools right now.

Budget is not limitless but I can save up for something solid. I’m at a point in my life that I believe you need quality gear if you are going to make quality music.

So: With quality being #1 and budget #2, what are the ultimate cans for the serious home studio mixer that wants to really hear everything?

(PS: I don’t think I want to upgrade the monitors this year. The room is not treated well enough and I don’t want to bother. That’s why I’m focused on quality headphones to act as primary with my other 2 references for checking my work).

[CrystalWizard]

I’ll happily edit away, make music, listen to music but i can’t mix nearly as well with headphones. I have a decent set of Grado’s. I’d recomment doing a bit of free or cheap room dampening and get better monitors, or get better cans and do your mixing elsewhere. When you get new loudspeakers or headphones be sure to play a lot of material you know really well.
Not sure how ultimate you mean. How much do you want to spend?

[acYm]

I had many low-tier headphones in the past. I'm sure they've improved over time like everything else, but they do not compare with a good set.
ultimate, eh? a safe bet would be to order something high-end like a beyerdynamics, focal or sennheiser from sonarworks with a custom Reference eq profile, as well as an audio-gd NFB-28 to drive it.
that would be like getting a new set of ears.

[Hewitt Huntwork]

I've been wondering the same thing. I got turned on to Sonarworks 4 for headphone correction, and I'm thinking of adding the Goodhertz plug CanOpener Studio for soundstage purposes. But I'm wondering, if Soundworks 4 is doing its thing, aren't frequency range and comfort the big issues now? Closed back for tracking and semi-open for mixing?

BTW I hear all Dave's changes on Sony's MDR 7506, with and without use of Sonarworks 4, so you don't have to spend a ton. I was thinking of moving up to the Beyerdynamic DT-880s just for the pure physical comfort.

[CircuitEYE]

I have used a lot of headphones including some very expensive ones.
I ended up using a cheep pair of Radio shack phones with great results.
To bad they are gone now...

[jochicago]

I heard Andrew Scheps mention that he is fine mixing with headphones (edit: I think it's Sony MDR 7506). He uses a particular pair that he knows really well, and he is confident he can mix anything and it will sound good. Obviously he checks with other references, but he nails it with the headphones just fine.

I noticed I have a similar experience. Sure, my headphones sound different than my monitors, but now that I know them both I have a pretty good idea of what I'm doing and my mixes sound good on either. I trust what I'm doing on either the headphones or the monitors (although I feel I'm squinting through fuzzy glass to try to hear some of the subtleties when making micro adjustments). So I feel I can learn a new set of headphones and mix with them just fine, particularly if they are of a much higher grade than my current intro ones.

Not sure how ultimate you mean. How much do you want to spend?

I know how much I spent over the years on my pro guitars, pro keyboard, powerful PC and software. But what good is all of it I'm not hearing my mixes right?

I want cans that would be solid by anyone's standards. If Andrew Scheps needs to borrow my workstation for an afternoon, I want him to grab my cans and think "oh yes, these are nice". Budget: whatever is the least amount to get that level of quality

[jochicago]

BTW I hear all Dave's changes on Sony's MDR 7506, with and without use of Sonarworks 4, so you don't have to spend a ton. I was thinking of moving up to the Beyerdynamic DT-880s just for the pure physical comfort.

RE: Sony MDR 7506
I have a pair of those or a very similar model, But one side stopped working years ago. I don't want to scrap them, but how to get them fixed? I considered opening them up msyelf but I'm not versed at electronics.

Comfort would be a great plus. The Samsons get quite uncomfortable past an hour of use. It has been fine because I lose my ears after about an hour anyway, so I have to remind myself to take breaks and the ear pain is the cue. But moving forward I think I can forgo the pain timer.

[MadDogE134]

i use two sets of cans... Ultrasone 900 Pros (picked them up refurbished for a decent price) which have a decent 3D soundstage for cans but recently picked up a set of Blue Lolas and use them with the SW4 adjustment and really love them.

myself i have no probs 'mixing' in cans but nothing beats referencing the mix on actual stereo monitors to double check work. problem with mixing in cans is the driver is so close to the ear and sound directly into the ear and can't completely be trusted imo. the Ultrasone's drivers do not play directly into the ear canal hence the improved soundstage i reckon. if i have to use cans to mix... i do the bulk in the Lolas and periodically put on the 900 Pros without SW4 on and when i dump a mixdown i listen on monitors, car and cell phone to see where i am. cheers

p.s. one thing i REALLY like about mixing in cans is setting reverb and delay levels. to me it is so much easier to discern over actual stereo monitors. even when i mix in the open i ALWAYS check reverb and delay level in the cans to make sure it is what i like and want. one thing to note though... when you mix in cans your ears will fatigue considerably faster and you should take more frequent breaks to let the ear relax and reset

[enroe]

I’m asking in the Effects forum for 2 reasons:
1. I want to have a conversation from a perspective of advanced mixing with effects
2. I’m also wondering how the headphones pair up with a plugin for headphone
corrections

Point 2: "Headphone corrections" can only straighten the frequency response
curve. But the frequency response curve is not important - and you can change
the frequency response with every equalizer.

--> What is important is the way impulses and transients are translated into
acoustic waves. And at this point loudspeakers (monitors) and headphones differ.

I watch Pensado show some effects and he’s like “oh wow, big difference”,
and I’m thinking “are you sure you clicked the bypass?”. .... but still he’s
clearly hearing much more than me.

Yes exactly. I sometimes wonder what people can hear, though they have
very shabby speakers.

Budget is not limitless but I can save up for something solid. I’m at a point
in my life that I believe you need quality gear if you are going to make
quality music.

So: With quality being #1 and budget #2, what are the ultimate cans
for the serious home studio mixer that wants to really hear everything?

Your pondering is right: It is much more expensive to get transparent and
analytic good sounding monitors than getting good headphones. That is
because the first one had to transform much more energy.

(PS: I don’t think I want to upgrade the monitors this year. The room is
not treated well enough and I don’t want to bother. That’s why I’m
focused on quality headphones to act as primary with my other 2
references for checking my work).

So my advice is: Go and try the Sennheiser HD590, HD600 or HD650.

These might seem expensive to you. But if you really want to hear
everything Pensado does, these are the ones for you. There are also
other Headphones, but all which are as good as these mentioned here
cost noticeable more than 1000€.

Also it is better to have one good headphone than to have a lot of
mediocre ones.

[andymcbain]

Sennheiser HD650 and Sonarworks are what I use. The 600/650 are an old design compared to some but still great, and I find it easier to make EQ and spatial decisions in these headphones than on my relatively low end monitors in my semi-treated room. Super comfortable as well and If the various graphs online are to be believed then both models have a relatively flat frequency response (the HD600 more so).

Sonarworks correction makes a big difference for me and personally I wouldn't want to be without it now.

Another similarly priced model I’ve tried was the AKG K712, also with Sonarworks correction. It had a very different voicing to the HD650 (more “in your face” perhaps) and a much more obvious low end.

A few friends of mine rave about the Focal Spirit Professional, which again is in the same sort of price bracket – though is a closed back design which may make them less comfortable for long periods of time.

But anyways, “the best” mixing headphone probably doesn’t exist. A degree of personal preference is always going to come into it. A relatively even frequency response should help but there’s more to a headphone’s sonic signature than that. I also know of a few very skilled and experienced mix engineers who prefer the sound of their headphones without Sonarworks correction and find it easier to mix with them “as is”.

If you’re able to go to a shop and try various models out with some familiar reference tracks, that would be a good way to go

Using headphones safely is another big consideration. I have tinnitus which is likely down to excessive headphone use (it was brought on after 2 nights of DJing in a less than ideal environment but years of blasting in the studio for hours on end won't have helped!)

[do_androids_dream]

The golden rule with mixing is that you simply need to be very, very used to whatever speakers/headphones you have - only then will you be able to make meaningful decisions. I've mixed and mastered clients material on everything from ear buds to cheap computer speakers to £2500 + monitors. It really doesn't matter as much as you might think. My current favourite headphones are Betrons Retro set which will set you back a whopping £17. I loved the sound as soon as I heard them and prefer them to some much more expensive sets that have come my way.

[enroe]

I've mixed and mastered clients material on everything from ear buds to cheap computer speakers to £2500 + monitors. It really doesn't matter as much as you might think.

Yes, very true!

My current favourite headphones are Betrons Retro set which will set you back a whopping £17.

Woaa - £17 - and you work with them. That's nice!

For mixing you need a kind of "overall listening". And for this it is
not important that you have a very analytic headphone or monitor.
It is more important that you "know" your monitors - and these
monitors can be cheap and constrictive ones.

[Teksonik]

For instance, I watch Pensado show some effects and he’s like “oh wow, big difference”, and I’m thinking “are you sure you clicked the bypass?”.

Or he's simply falling victim to the Placebo Effect. I can think of a couple of developers whose plugins have gained popularity due in large part to that Effect.......

[Pictus]

A good reference https://www.rtings.com/headphones/revie ... audiophile

[digitalboytn]

I have a heap of great headphones...

The usual studio and HiFi culprits from AKG,Senheisser and Sony,along with a few nice ear buds...

My favourites are the AKG K702...

It is a real pleasure to listen to music on those phones...

Great for mixing music with too