Peter Gorges in keyboards on cracking and future of software

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Hi,

only in German but well worth a reading are the last 3 issues of KEYBOARDS magazine (those with the many samples a week ago or so mentioned here).
Peter Gorges from Wizoo writes there about how those methods of copy - protection came around after crack-users began to get more and more and more. And what he thinks the future might be. I'm definitely sure that most who write here had that discussion too often and are slightly bored, but that those who READ only here (about 90-99% I guess) are sometimes of another opinion and behave in another way. Not to talk of all of the software-users in the world. I understand that people who like NI or other challenge-response-companies who even get you PACE on the PC without telling you don't mind methods who certainly are a failure. (I had it after a demo from a company, NOT NI, and I like to know BEFORE what I get, even if Pace didn't crash my system like that of friends). But I like to read what someone who knows all this well has to say and just can recommend these 3 articles very much.
Without saying much of what Mr. Gorges says in his article (and in a fine language too, I hope it is on their website in English also :D ) the following is just true, I think: many people really STOPPED buying software because they are treated like thiefs, and copy-protection in this strange "I do not believe my customers"-way led to buying-protection :( . Not here, I suppose, at KVR, but well that would be a bit naive to think 99,999% act like people here. For example Sascha Franck had experienced "reality" at University and everyone who is not blind sees it.

Gorges says the software-big-ones had made the same mistakes as CD-industry had done, a kind of "honest users are getting less and less, so let's treat them not as kings but as thiefs". Believe me, there are not as many NI-lovers in the world as are here at KVR who even defend :?: this embarassing challenge - response! Reality is that NI seems to sell much (I don't know) because they produce wonderful software but not only (well, stress lies on ONLY) the crack-users are the reason for such high pricings, the mistake of recent copy-protections are another good reason not to buy Ableton live or Native Instruments.
And I cannot avoid to think that Absynth (I knew only Absynth1 demo, there doesn't seem one for version2?) or FM7 are worth twice or thrice the price of Rhino and z3ta+... And those wonderful synths are still given out without telling the customer he or she's a thief most probably :D.

Anyway, I know there are different opinions. I merely write that for readers around here and for those who think like me "what to buy" for my music. Just here Mr. Gorges has written a very very fine article, in Keyboards 7/04 to Keyboards 9/04. Learn German, folks :lol: as I'm surely not allowed to translate it here even if I could without destroying that fine art of writing Peter Gorges has :D.
Solution, as we all know, is not easy, otherwise that fuzz wouldn't have started years ago. But again there's much more a point in Gorges' argumentation than in strange copy-protection-methods which really didn't make anything better, following Gorges and following experience. He says it's all about how you present your product (taking iTunes from Mr.Jobs as an example, a great success, but the product, music, has stayed the same, whereas copy-protected-CDs are a nightmare). And about how you treat your customers! As kings or as thiefs. I MUST tell one sentence here as it makes me laugh, keyboards forgive :D:

Mr.Gorges wrote at keyboards 9/04:
"If you get for your money not " the right to use the product ONLY on one machine at lunar eclipse or in ice-age" ....

then you are more likely thinking of actually buying the software :lol:

...well I stop here. It's really fun reading that, in my opinion :-).

I know manymany who think that way. Nobody knows about the future, but at least many seem to think the past with ch-resp is/was an utter failure. Software companies do struggle, and challenge-response-methods are a good argument for crack-users, if we admit it or not. That is definitely NOT to say they had any good arguments. They stay thiefs. But I'm tired of listening to the "hey you are naive"-"argument" 1000 times and as an answer we got: challenge response.

Reading those articles like from keyboards or in some older Computermusic (they came to a different conclusion) and thinking again might be a better way than throwing out of KVR by the way one person because he is a thief (hey, 99% are thiefs! That smells a bit like puritanistic american right-wing-politics in the face of poor people all around, in my opinion, and don't getting reality as it is right now. Reality is definitely not KVR with I-don't-know-how-many honest users, surely 100%:-). I understand a thief is a thief, but it's self-indulgent from companies treating honest customers like thiefs and then closing the eyes.)

Had to say this. I know there are different and good opinions, but this discussion is important and not done with.
A hurray to Peter Gorges with whom I am not in any way friend, relative or his car-washer. Simply one step beyond, what he writes. And again a hurray to all of those who still in these times give good software for a very good price with great support like Linplug, BigTick, rgcaudio, Camel audio, ConcreteFX and others. (In fact as it seems to go on this "don't think we think you are a thief but you might be one so send me your ID" way I simply buy more from them and nothing from people who think we are thiefs :D ). Better world would be getting Absynth2 for a reasonable price and with a serial-number like Rhino and Albino2 and so on. Or maybe if it's only allowed on first of April on ONE AMD-ATHLON-machine from 3 to 4 at the rain falls then with a dongle :lol:! It's better than challenge-response and companies would sell machines with 27-81 usb-hubs :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Good idea to mention it here!
I've also read his series. It's kind of funny because of his writing style, but i can't really translate it to english. He is writing in a very old-fashioned language which provides a good bit of irony to his article.
Klemperer wrote:Mr.Gorges wrote at keyboards 9/04:
"If you get for your money not " the right to use the product ONLY on one machine at lunar eclipse or in ice-age" ....
I don't understand that. And i cannot find the german equivalent to this in my KB 9/04 :?

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timewastin wrote:Good idea to mention it here!
I've also read his series. It's kind of funny because of his writing style, but i can't really translate it to english. He is writing in a very old-fashioned language which provides a good bit of irony to his article.
Klemperer wrote:Mr.Gorges wrote at keyboards 9/04:
"If you get for your money not " the right to use the product ONLY on one machine at lunar eclipse or in ice-age" ....
I don't understand that. And i cannot find the german equivalent to this in my KB 9/04 :?
it's always on the last page :wink:

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Naa :lol: i mean i couldn't find the german equivalent to the quotation of peter gorges that i quoted from Klemperer :oops:

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:oops: - ah I see - I completely misunderstood you

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Hi timewastin,

I surely didn't translate right. It's in his article though and I'll pm you a better translation :oops: . He simply made a joke about the restrictions that come from copy-protections of the kind I mentioned. I knew I'd kill his fine style when trying to translate it :lol: . Meaning of the sentence being you can just use your copy-protected vst as easter-time and x-mas fall on the same day or something :lol: , kinda "Übertreibung" (superstition???? err, where's my English again :D ) to show the limits of challenge-response etc.
When mentioning the Gorges-article here I had hoped keyboards had an english translation somewhere :D .

edit: I see you live near (?) Hamburg like me :D . I'll search the sentence when at home and pm it to you :D . Could have spared my bad translations as only Germans answered :lol: , cheers Jens...

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Klemperer wrote:Meaning of the sentence being you can just use your copy-protected vst as easter-time and x-mas fall on the same day or something :lol: , kinda "Übertreibung" (superstition???? err, where's my English again :D )
over-exaggeration (I hope I spelled it correctly :?)


cheers, Georg :)

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I think "to exaggerate" is enough...without the extra "over"...

Warum reden wir eigentlich nich deutsch? DIe nicht-deutschen hier können ja auch schlecht mitreden weil es afaik die Zeitschrift im Ausland nicht gibt...

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keine Ahnung :?

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I love Challenge/Response.

I was gonna buy Ableton Live, Absynth, Sampletank 2 and the Superwave synths but now I can use that money to leave the house, socialize with friends and maybe even start dating again.

It's a beautiful world.

:?

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Synthpopkid wrote:I love Challenge/Response.

I was gonna buy Ableton Live, Absynth, Sampletank 2 and the Superwave synths but now I can use that money to leave the house, socialize with friends and maybe even start dating again.

It's a beautiful world.

:?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey that's by FAR better than my 250 pages above :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

makes me laugh, what a funny day... (but still a VERY good article from Peter Gorges, believe me :D )

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Synthpopkid wrote:I love Challenge/Response.

I was gonna buy Ableton Live, Absynth, Sampletank 2 and the Superwave synths but now I can use that money to leave the house, socialize with friends and maybe even start dating again.

It's a beautiful world.

:?
...but then you don't get to make music with those lovely plugins! :lol:

Society or music? Hmmm...

Society's f*cked up and there's nothing you can do about it... on the other hand music is whatever you want it to be!

Forever,




Kim.

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Society or music? Hmmm...
Tricky. Maybe I should try speed dating...

"First question. Who is Rob Papen?".

:)

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but still a VERY good article from Peter Gorges, believe me
I'm with ya on that.

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