Prob w/recording electric guitar

[Chrisyboy]

Pretty new to all this, so bear with me if this is really dumb

Basically I am trying to record my electric guitar to my computer:

The guitar itself goes into a DI box, then into a Mic input on my mixer (cheapie Behringer UB1002) where the gain is sorted, then the main outputs of the mixer (2xunbalanced) go into the inputs of my soundcard, an E-MU 1212M. I then setup the Patchmix software with an ASIO send for both the left and the right input. I then get into my host (trying the demo of Tracktion atm), enable the inputs, and try recording the sound.

The problem is this: when I listen to the sound that I can hear directly through patchmix, as well as through Tracktion's own monitoring, it sounds great, bright, clear etc.

But when I have recorded the sound and then play it back it sounds pretty dull, a bit muffled etc. Nothing like what I'm hearing through all the monitoring basically.

I've tried a few things, but to no avail. Anyone got any ideas on what I can do to improve the sound?

Any advice would be much appreciated Cheers.

[Perret]

I don't actually have any idea why the guitar sounds dull, but why are you recording two channels (I'm assuming you are based on your explanation) ? Just pan the guitar channel completely to one direction on the mixer and record only that channel. That way you can at least rule out any potential phase issues (even though there really shouldn't be any if the signals are identical and you don't have a timing problem).

If you have recorded in stereo, have you made sure to compare the sound with the same panning ? I mean if Patchmix is setup to monitor one channel panned left and another one right, you should do the same thing when playing back in Tracktion. Otherwise you won't get the same sound, although it shouldn't be _that_ different. And anyway, it's a mono source so record in mono ok ?

[Chrisyboy]

I was recording in stereo, not intentionally though

Although both of the outputs from my mixer were plugged into my 1212m, I had only inserted an ASIO send in the Left channel strip in Patchmix.

However this was showing up as 2 inputs in Tracktion, which it was automatically treating as a stereo pair, so as I was just mucking around I decided to leave it at that

Not sure what I did, but through settings and general mucking about I seemed to have got the audio recording as it should sound, so that's cool

[Lunch Money]

Good to hear!

Just as a tip, though-- I use a Behringer 802 (similar beast), an Audiophile 2496 (similar? Dunno, but stereo unbalanced RCA inputs!), and Tracktion--

On the mixer, I'm always panned either hard left or hard right, depending on which input I'm using. Then in Tracktion, you press the input icon in the main edit page (it'll say 'EMU 1+2' or something similar). Once it's surrounded in red (ie. selected), you'll see some options at the bottom of the screen. Un-tick the radio button for "Treat as a stereo pair". Then, you'll see 2 devices instead of one. One of them will correspond to the EMU's left input, and one will be the EMU's right. Then I just think of them as 2 mono inputs.

Sorted!

Greg

[Sascha Franck]

Greg, for the 802, here's a tip for you (won't work with the smaller model), only good for recording mono signals, but that's what we do most of the times anyways, no?
Instead of using the mixer outs to feed your soundcard, use the prefader send (send 1) it has.
The advance of this is, that you can monitor yourself on the mixer independently from the signal being send to the soundcard.

IMO (in case your mixer has pre-fader sends) this is the best way to record things at home as you don't need to adjust your recording level first, then your monitoring level. You just set both of them to your likings.

Another thing I do:
As said, I use a pre-fader send to feed the channel I record on.
Then I am using some post-fader send, to feed another soundcard input. This input is routed to some "input object" (that's what they are called in Logic) which doesn't run into any output but simply has a send running into an FX bus running any of my favourite software effects, usually a delay, a bit of reverb or whatever (for other hosts this technique might slightly differ).
With this setup I can listen to the dry part of my signal (miced amp, amp simulator, mic, whatever), setup independent record and monitor levels and add some of my software effects, all by turning some knobs on my mixer. Of course the effects will be running with some latency, but that's just OK for the ocasional reverb or delay as long as my dry signal is all there without latency.

[Lunch Money]

Thanks for the tips, but since I'm a bit of a mixer numpty some of it has gone over my head. Are you saying that I should use the "FX send" and then adjust the level using the "FX" knob per channel?

The other options are to use the "Tape In" with the control room knob and control room outputs.

I have to admit, it's annoying that this mixer uses non-standard terminology-- they think it makes it easier to call things "tape" or "control room" when in fact they are just different busses and don't have to be used for the purpose they're labeled for.

Greg

[Sascha Franck]

Greg, the connections on my small setup (using the 802 as well) are like that:
- Inputs are fed by whatever source (In1 is my VAmp, In2 my POD, almost only used for students btw, In3 is some cable running into the acoustic PU, In4 is some Rode NT3 mic).
- Stereo inputs are fed by the output of the two soundcards I use (Edirol PCR A 30 and EMI 62m).
- The whole thing is running into my power amp (using the main outs of course).

So far that's just the most usual thing.
Now, in case I want to record any of the 4 mono inputs, what to do in case I still want to listen to my soundcards outputs (which would be the most obvious thing I'd say...)?
Easy, that's when pre-fader sends become handy!

- Send 1 is connected to my soundcards Input 1. Whenever I want to record any of my sources, I just pull up the appropriate send knob and there we go.
The channel volumes allow to adjust my monitoring volume just fine and independently of the levels sent to the soundcard.

IMO that's the most convenient solution for almost any home recording setup - of course only working in case your mixer features one or more pre-fader sends.
In case of the 802 you will probably run into some recabling action as soon as you want to record stereo signals (as there's just one pre-fader send), but personally, I almost never do (and many people may not either, from what it seems). To record (backup) old tapes I just connect the out of the tape deck straight to the soundcard (fortunately the EMI has some additional ins).

OK, now on to the "tricky" stuff (actually it's not tricky at all, once you know what's happening).

- Send 2 is feeding Input 2 of my soundcard.
This I don't use for recording (at least usually I don't...) but only to feed some "live FX" of my sequencer of choice.
Whether it works or not is up to the routing options inside your sequencer.
In Logic there's socalled "input objects", allowing me to just send anything into them, apply FX, and send portions of it to my allready used FX busses.
The input object fed by Send 2 I don't route to any output because I don't want to listen to my input through software (see above, that's what I use the mixer for). Instead I only use some FX sends on the input object, running into 100% wet FX busses(typical send effects such as reverb or delay).
So, whenever I turn up Send 2 on the 802 it will add whatever FX and sends are used on Logics input objects, without adding any "dry" sound (which would only result in unwanted doublings, caused by latency).

Allright, so here's the final scenario in my setup:
- Turn up whatever input source you're using to your likings. Obvious.
- Want to record something? Turn up Send 1 until the levels are right. Monitor levels aren't affected because that's what "pre-fader" is all about. No need to change the Send 1 level in case I want to listen to myself louder or so.
- Want some realtime send FX generated by your sequencer, such as a bit of delay or reverb for playing pleasure? No problem, I just turn up Send 2. As said, this is depending on your hosts routing capabilities, but at least Logic and Cubase do the job just fine.

So, even with such a small setup I have all the comfort I need. Independent soundcard feed and monitoring levels, additional monitoring FX in case I want some, no monitoring latency as the dry signal is only listened to through the mixer, all my soundcard outs being adjustable as well (as they are just running into the stereo channels of the 802), overall volume control straight from the mixer (as this is what is running into the power amp, rather than the soundcard directly).

Does this explain everything a bit better?

Sorry to somewhat hijack this thread as all the above mentioned scenarios won't work as well with the smaller Behringer (formerly known as 602, now UB1002) because it simply has no pre-fader send.

[Lunch Money]

Aha!

This is where we might be getting crossed wires. In fact, my mixer is the UB802. I didn't realize there was an 802 without the "UB". Sorry if you feel your explanation was wasted on me, though I hope there will be other people out there with the mixer you speak of.

Greg