Wags, the thread-locker

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

So, how about removing the 'privilege' of users being able to lock their own threads??

How long do you think it's going to take me to get to THAT level of proficiency with genres I'm NOT comfortable with?

There's no way of telling how long it will take you. But it's important to realise that you are not going to be starting from scratch. You've already many things in your favour:

- You have cultivated self-discipline.
- You are motivated.
- You have time, and a supportive family.
- You aren't dependent on the success of your music to survive.
- You understand music theory, and arrangement.
- You know your tools (Software, Daw etc).
- You are improving your mixing skills to best represents your music.
- You are able to work to a deadline.
- You already have a following of people willing to listen to your music.

I mean let's be honest. How much longer am I going to even be able to physically do this before my overall mental capacity reaches a point where I can't even write a pop song anymore?

You're only 61! There's no reason why you can't live out another healthy 40 years. The biggest thing that will stop you from being able to is thinking you can't

The advantage of music-composing as a career is that it's work you actually can do until you lose mental faculties, which is something that can't be said about most careers.

Without realizing it, you've basically said to me that I have years of study ahead of me.

I didn't say you had years of study ahead of you. I suggested that you immerse yourself in the genre, practice, and put together a portfolio.

I don't have a lick of theory, and I certainly don't have the same level of self-discipline as you, and I am reckoning on 18 months to two years until I would even think about submitting my work. Even if I thought I was doing good work, I'd want a large enough amount of it to rule out beginners luck

I reckon that in your case if you haven't got past the stage of just going through the motions in under a year, that might be time to think about something else. But I don't see why you wouldn't give it a solid year, to not only rid yourself of the need to second-guess yourself, but to build up a larger body of work, with which to back up your dream.

If it's important to you, then put the time in to do it well.

If I'm misunderstanding you, tell me. But it sure sounds like from what I just read that I've got a very long road ahead of me. I mean I wrote my first pop song in 1977 and didn't write my first "good" one until 1990. That's 13 years it took to get my first and only song contract.

Again! I don't think you have a long road ahead of you. Part of what makes a quicker journey to success seems to be knowing what doesn't work, and being able to just let it go, and to be really honest (Different to self-deprecation) about what is and what isn't working.

Personally, I think that you are much better these days at judging what it is about your stuff that works, and it seems a lot less down to luck. Furthermore, and like I said before, forget the 61/42 story. While I think you needed to lay an extensive foundation, it's my opinion that only in the last few years have you shown a real increase in skill. When you signed up here, you not only seemed unaware of your DAW's quantise function, but more distressingly you couldn't seem to hear that things were even out of time. I'd say that your skill has increased exponentially since then.

I'd suggest that it's only because of your insistence that you keep framing it as a 42-year journey that makes it seem, in hindsight, to have been so insurmountable, and why the thought of having to almost start again fills you with dread

Like I said earlier, you now have skills that will help the next stage. You have a forum from which to seek help, you seem able to seek guidance elsewhere and apply it easily; You know how to ask the right questions, and I think you are probably a little more inclined to do so.

So, no...I think you have a much shorter road towards the next destination

I can hope I'll pick this stuff up quicker but there is no guarantee that's going to happen.

Nope! No guarantee.

Don't rule out the possibility that you just aren't going to be any good at writing like this. That thought either has you not wanting to even try, or to do enough so that if it doesn't work out you can rule out that you just couldn't be arsed.

Because like you said, there's a difference between "aping" a genre and truly understanding it.

To my mind, a big distinction between aping something and trying to understand a genre, starts with that idea that in many cases art will always be more than the some of it's parts. To an outsider (or a genre outsider), there may be the impression that an artwork is nothing more than paint thrown at a canvas, or that modular music is "nothing but noise, beeps and squelches"; or that all dance music is not much more than a samey, pounding beat. However, to those attuned to a specific genre, and who appreciate certain nuances contained within, seemingly banal tracks can be very evocative.

You also often can't separate the music from the intended listening context. Given that most dance music is intended to be danced to, while being played very loud, and with the majority of dancers being under the influence of certain mood-accelerating substances, understanding of that type of music can easily allude those who have never experienced that given situation.

So, aping is more trying to mimic a genre without giving it it's due respects, and thinking that in the space of a couple off months you could achieve what it takes other artists years to perfect.

In short, you really haven't instilled a lot of hope with your last response. Of course maybe that dose of honesty is what I need

Hope, like faith, often removes the control from our hands. Being honest with ones-self at least us gives something to work with.

Since the first few pieces I write, at minimum, are going to be ones where I'm "aping" the genre, what's the point? They're not going to be any good by your own words. So when do I actually start writing so that I'm NOT aping things and actually writing from understanding or is that simply not possible?

I didn't say your first pieces wouldn't be any good, nor did I say that you'd be aping. Like I said earlier, I believe aping to be more of a painting-by-numbers approach, and informed by the feeling that you should be able to just do it without any hassle, or because you can write pop music.

I think the antidote to that is becoming more familiar with the genre; to immerse yourself in the type of music you are going for; to actively watch movies with the intent of focusing on the soundtracks; to listen to soundtracks on their own; to practise writing to a brief, and to practise scoring to short films etc.

You could also seek out interviews with people like Junkie XL, Hanz Zimmer, or other not so notable figures. And you could watch scoring/underscoring tutorials on Youtube.

In fact, I reckon the quickest way to shortcut the aping stage is to view the genre like it's a whole new world, and approach it as if you had no idea of what you are doing.

You've opened up a can of worms here that I never truly thought about and now I'm wondering what the point is. If it's just to write stuff for my own enjoyment, I can do that writing pop music. I don't have to venture into something new. But if it's to get into a business, and you yourself said I shouldn't totally chuck the whole idea, the stuff I write for my own enjoyment to start isn't going to be worth a hill of beans from a business perspective. I mean it just won't be if all I'm doing is "aping"

I'm not saying you are only supposed to be writing for your own enjoyment, but that unless the whole process is enjoyable for you it will probably show in the results, and would just be a pointless endeavour.

The idea would be that you would be getting paid for what you love doing

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

ibtl

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

locked!!

[Hink]

ftr I locked that thread