If The Major DAW Developers Said They Were Dropping Support For Mac OS...

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imrae
KVRian
805 posts since 2 Jul, 2010

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:16 am

If I could run my favourite plugins and DAW on Linux with official support, I would.

If you look at the work Valve have done in making their core stuff play well with Linux, I think their main motivation there is not to serve the needs of Linux users but to reduce their strategic dependence on Microsoft. It's a business risk to depend on a platform that you can't control.

A big part of the appeal of a Linux setup to me is that I will never have to ask permission to duplicate it, virtualize it etc. It's weird to talk about there being "few users" when the total number of installations is uncountable; instances are being spawned and killed the whole time in large server rooms, running applications that certainly have real human users.

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
14141 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: If The Major DAW Developers Said They Were Dropping Support For Mac OS...

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:36 am

parricide wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:05 am
linux is a much better OS
It is, for people who find it to be a much better OS :shrug: There is no ‘objectively better’, just preference, which is informed by different factors for different people.

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sin night
KVRian
1240 posts since 1 Aug, 2006 from Italy

Re: If The Major DAW Developers Said They Were Dropping Support For Mac OS...

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:06 am

I'd love to use Linux for music making, but I can't use it untill the whole industry supports it. I need to be able to use my hardware (some requires proprietary/custom drivers, instead of being plug'n'play :uhuhuh: ) and to run my daw and all (or most of) my plugins (and this requires also support for copy protection system/devices like iLok, eLicenser...). And then I need low latency (do I still need a realtime kernel? I didn't play around with Linux in the last few years).

You can't realistically drop support for an operating system that does the job (despite the annual issues related to their annual release schedule, which I something I don't understand) for something that is not ready yet for the task (Linux). The industry could decide to just focus on Windows, but that would give way too much power to Microsoft and it's not healthy in the long run (we need to have choices, even if it's just between two competitors).

Currently I use Macs for my music, but I'm going to switch back to Windows soon (after more than 10 years on OSX) for various reasons (the prices, then the direction toward a walled garden, which I don't like at all). What worries me most is that I don't have any real alternative left but Windows for music making and I don't like the idea of a single company having so much power (and it would be the same as if I had no other option but Mac for music making). I have no problems at working with Windows (in fact I use it 40h+ every week at work to code) despite my strong preference for OSX; it's the lack of alternatives that makes me feel uncomfortable...


When we'll see a solid Linux support (or whatever alternative operating system, that is), then they could even drop OSX support... It would be a really bad news if they were to drop OSX support because they have no real alternative than doing so...

dellboy
KVRian
1050 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Re: If The Major DAW Developers Said They Were Dropping Support For Mac OS...

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:40 am

sin night wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:06 am
And then I need low latency (do I still need a realtime kernel? I didn't play around with Linux in the last few years).
I had a little play around with Linux a couple of months back and found the supplied kernel to be adequate for low latency. There is no need to use jack any more if you do not want to.

The default latency with the supplied "alsa" sound in Bitwig was no worse than asio in Windows. In fact using Bitwig in Linux seemed much the same. No crashes or dreaded "x-runs" in audio.

I am not sure if it is possible to use stuff like VSTs and i-lok etc without jumping through a lot of hoops

Psuper
KVRist
325 posts since 3 May, 2018

Re: If The Major DAW Developers Said They Were Dropping Support For Mac OS...

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:48 am

Any OS makes a fine desktop. Windows is bloat, Macs are elitist, and Linux is obscure. I hack my windows down to the core and find it best for most things I do, while Linux is for playing around like the old days of frakensteining a system but with all the new fangled stuff. Macs I still can't get over the old days of charging 4x the price for the same hardware of a PC, and their users epitomized fanboyism back when it wasn't even a word.

Things change, macs aren't crazy pricey and users have calmed down, but I can't stand the platform anyway. Linux flavors otoh may not be on many desktops at moms house, but they dominate the IT infrastructure in the professional world for good reason. Windows is still bloat.
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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
8726 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: If The Major DAW Developers Said They Were Dropping Support For Mac OS...

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:54 pm

That depends on your profession. Linux certainly doesn't dominate in mine. It gets used by the real big post houses, like Weta Digital, but that's because they have 40,000 CPU render farms and buying that many Windows licenses is prohibitively expensive. They also have a massive IT dept to support and customise it, so their Linux looks and behaves very differently to the Linux distress you and I are likely to come into contact with. Elsewhere it's off the shelf PC and Mac solutions because of the significantly lower IT workload required.
THE INTRANCER wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:48 pm
Primarily, it's a backup OS should anything happen to my main operating system
I assume this is a joke, right? Honestly, what is more likely, that your OS will fall over or that the drive it's installed on will fail? But if you are really that crazy/paranoid, why not keep a pristine Windows installation on another drive, ready to swap in at a moment's notice?
in addition to being an operating system that will allow my system to access all my system RAM. (Win 7 64 Bit Home Edition doesn't)...Still not exceeded 16 gigs yet for anything I've done, (I have 20 gigs installed), so provides that bit extra if I can make use of it with the 3D apps I use.
I don't suppose it ever occurred to you that Windows is just using your RAM far more efficiently and that's why it never needs more than 16GB? And when you say "3D apps", which ones are you talking about? Obviously not 3DS Max but I'm thinking not Maya, either. Which leave maybe Blender?
I originally got the drive to install Windows 10 on it..which I may still do ( although actually hating it for a multitude of reasons )
But not one you can articulate for the purpose of discussion?
but held off and left Linux on it as an alternative system of options.
Really poor options, maybe, not viable ones.
parricide wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:05 am
i would praise them for the brave move.
linux is a much better OS
No, it isn't. The better OS is the one that supports more of the applications you want or need to use and on that front Linux fails dismally. Because that's the thing - you don't choose your OS, you choose your applications and then you find the OS that best supports them. That is the only logical way to make these decisions.
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Michael L
KVRAF
2867 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from The End of The World as We Knowit

Re: If The Major DAW Developers Said They Were Dropping Support For Mac OS...

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:37 pm

BONES wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:54 pm
you choose your applications and then you find the OS that best supports them
That's it.
My preference for Mac-only software for media production (e.g.MetaSynt) keeps me on this OS along with my familiarity with the OSX media file structure.
OTOH, I have a separate Windows system for all sales and accounting software, because that software is the industry standard, it's updated regularly, has good support, etc. I would never change to Mac software for that use!
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You open it
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CasualHobbyist
KVRist
65 posts since 20 May, 2018

Re: If The Major DAW Developers Said They Were Dropping Support For Mac OS...

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:21 pm

@jinotsuh I take it you don't like Linux from the looks of it. Oh well, to each to their own. I think calling "delusional advantages" makes you seem aggressive and quite off the mark though, but I'll leave it as that. Is clear you don't like it so.

@BONES Sure, applications is a nice incentive. For some people, either you have them or don't, and I guess that's a fine though. What makes a better OS however is purely a personal matter and rating (no "logical or objective here" as otherwise you stated) and what you posted reflects what you seem to value the most, for other people it depends though. Linux doesn't have (obviously) all the applications Windows does, but at the same time, it lacks Cortana, forced updates, and you are constantly at the helm (because you have full control). For you this may not matter (or happen) but for other people, it does. And I think it could be nice that instead of hurling "not viable" and "is that a joke" (referring to the backup OS comment) that we respect all people's options instead of trying to push for one-be-all-decision.

@general I like that this conversation didn't go into personal insults or attacks at others for what they use though. Could be using better phrasing but oh well

Winstontaneous
KVRAF
1648 posts since 15 Feb, 2006 from Berkeley, CA

Re: If The Major DAW Developers Said They Were Dropping Support For Mac OS...

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:37 pm

I can see why devs get PO'd with the breaking changes Apple makes regularly, be it rigid sandboxing/code-signing, dropping 32 bit for good, or ditching their own graphics frameworks every few years! Also the priorities of iGadget consumers drive Apple's development more than the needs of creative pros like in the old days. But dropping OSX would be a really risky move business-wise.

I use Mac (media production), Windows (general business tasks), Linux (server), and iOS in roughly equal measures. There's plenty to love and hate about each! One thing Mac still does best is native handling of multiple realtime audio interfaces regardless of protocol (USB, Thunderbolt, Firewire, stock mobo). Plus, I've never heard of DPC audio latency being an issue on any MacBook...while many Windows laptops are a crapshoot. At the same time, Logic Pro X is the least stable AU host I've used and they invented the f#ckin' format!

The Windows Subsystem for Linux is quite awesome for software development, letting you draw on the best elements of both OS's without virtualization/double booting.
Last edited by Winstontaneous on Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
8726 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: If The Major DAW Developers Said They Were Dropping Support For Mac OS...

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:09 pm

Michael L wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:37 pm
My preference for Mac-only software for media production (e.g.MetaSynt) keeps me on this OS along with my familiarity with the OSX media file structure.
OTOH, I have a separate Windows system for all sales and accounting software, because that software is the industry standard, it's updated regularly, has good support, etc. I would never change to Mac software for that use!
To me that is the ultimate in stupidity, choosing not to choose. It throws up a whole different set of compromises, far worse than any compromises you'd have to make choosing one OS over the other.
CasualHobbyist wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:21 pm
What makes a better OS however is purely a personal matter and rating (no "logical or objective here" as otherwise you stated).
No, it is a completely objective thing. Believe it or not, it is possible to prefer something while acknowledging that it's not the best, just the one you prefer. Moreover, that's a perfectly valid point of view. The problem, however, is that in people's infantile minds, whichever thing they like the most has to be the best and no other result is possible. It's absurd and an incredibly immature way to think.
Linux doesn't have (obviously) all the applications Windows does, but at the same time, it lacks Cortana, forced updates, and you are constantly at the helm (because you have full control).
I have 100% full control of Windows. I certainly don't have Cortana anywhere and I actually appreciate forced updates because it saves me having to go looking for them. Yes, just as with all my other software, I like to have the latest and greatest version of my OS installed, too. So much so that I am on the Insider Slow Ring so I can get them more often and before most other people. Kind of like the way I like to be on beta teams so I can have the latest and greatest. So what you stupidly think of as a disadvantage is actually a great advantage to anyone with a functioning brain.
For you this may not matter (or happen) but for other people, it does.
Which makes those "other people" complete idiots. I spend less than one minute a day interacting with Windows and 5 or 6 hours interacting with the applications I use. How stupid would anyone have to be to compromise those 5 or 6 hours for the sake of less than a minute?
And I think it could be nice that instead of hurling "not viable" and "is that a joke" (referring to the backup OS comment) that we respect all people's options instead of trying to push for one-be-all-decision.
Here's the thing, not all opinions are worthy of respect. Many are laughably absurd and almost all are poorly thought through and full of opinion masquerading as fact. Being able to sort the good ones from the dross is a pretty important life skill.

It may interest you to know that I don't really like Windows all that much, which is why I tried so hard to make Linux work for me, and I absolutely hate Microsoft, way more than I hate Apple (but probably not quite as much as I hate Google). I just don't let that cloud my judgement when I am looking for the best solutions for my needs. It's a case of looking for the least awful option in the most objective way possible.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), Zoom U24, Cubase, DUNE, Hive, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Substance, Arcsyn, Synthmaster One, Aparillo, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2

CasualHobbyist
KVRist
65 posts since 20 May, 2018

Re: If The Major DAW Developers Said They Were Dropping Support For Mac OS...

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:39 pm

-snip-
Last edited by CasualHobbyist on Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Michael L
KVRAF
2867 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from The End of The World as We Knowit

Re: If The Major DAW Developers Said They Were Dropping Support For Mac OS...

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:53 pm

BONES wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:09 pm
To me that is the ultimate in stupidity,
Ha, ha! I agree with you and you call it the ultimate in stupidity. Are you drinking?
He is a letter to everyone
You open it
It says Live

CasualHobbyist
KVRist
65 posts since 20 May, 2018

Re: If The Major DAW Developers Said They Were Dropping Support For Mac OS...

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:57 pm

Ahh, I'm tired honestly. You win @BONES, if you quote my posts, correct them, feel free to do whatever you want. Perhaps I went too into it and maybe you're right, maybe you aren't, I don't care at this point. Have fun I guess.

samsam
KVRAF
2782 posts since 9 Dec, 2008

Re: If The Major DAW Developers Said They Were Dropping Support For Mac OS...

Post Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:24 pm

BONES wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:13 pm

Of course I am smarter than you
I am probably the stupidest person where I work in some ways, in fact where I work is a real smart-person magnet, kinda by definition.

But trust me, none of the smart people I know sound anything like you or talk anywhere near as much as you. Enjoy your online over-compensating, I for one won't enable you any more.

imrae
KVRian
805 posts since 2 Jul, 2010

Re: If The Major DAW Developers Said They Were Dropping Support For Mac OS...

Post Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:48 am

BONES wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:09 pm
I have 100% full control of Windows.
Lol

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