recording a guitar through the lineout...

[seamoss]

I am sitting here in the office thinking about other ways to get a good guitar sound with minimal work.

I have used the different amp sims (amplitube, guitar rig...ect) and although I think they get some very interesting sounds, i still am very unhappy with any of the tube settings.

BUT...this isn't going to be a thread discussing whether or not amp sims sound good or not because I think they sound good for certain things.

anyway, I was curious if anybody was recording guitar using their lineouts in their amps? I have a fender twin and I was curious if I could get that tube tone using the lineout instead of having to mic it up everytime. i wish I could try this but I am not at home right now so all i can do is think about it and ask here. i am curious if the signal that runs through the tubes is the same signal that runs through the lineout. maybe a dumb question?

again, i am not starting this thread to discuss vst amp sims or any hardware amp sims. i am just curious about the lineout in tube amps.



thanks

[TheStorm]

I'm using a little (and I mean little practice amp to go directly into my audigy. I don't plug anything high-powered into the soundcard, as it tends to distort at pretty low volumes, but I've got this 15W Crate practice amp that works perfect. It actually sounds better (to me at least) than going through a mixer or DI box. Cleaner or something. I just unplug one of the speakers and plug the line out into the line-in on the soundcard, although of course there is a bit of noise.

I dunno about a Fender Twin, though; probably either going to distort or possibly be too powerful for the soundcard, even at small volumes? I have no idea. But in answer to your question, I'm doing it and it works great, once I've removed the noise sample...

[annode]

I don`t own a twin,(wish I did!),but I can say this...

In the twin,there are two stages,pre-amp,and power-amp(output to speaker).
The line out is an impedance balanced output that will be compatable to the line in of your card.
That line out can be"set"or"variable".
Set,if your amp volume control makes no difference to the sound if turned.
Variable if it does.
If the line out is a phone/TS plug type,and there is also a line in,plugging into the line out may diconnect your amp speaker...so monitoring your playing will need to come from somewhere else.

There`s a good chance your line out will be variable,and if it is not,which is better,you maybe able to use the tube drive gain control to saturate your guitar sound from the lineout.
Caution:when connecting to your soundcard,be sure to have your twin volume all the way down to start your test.

The lineout and soundcard linein will be balanced as far as impedance,but if the lineout is "set",it maybe somewhat low or somewhat high in volume.But you should be able to manage it.

[C00kie]

I discovered (the hard way...) that the line/slave out of my Orange OD-120 amp is not suitable for recording. Suddenly all the overdrive was lost. Maybe a faulty design or some other fault.

Anyway, I hook it up using a Koch loadbox which converts the speaker signal to mic level using a series of very big resistors. I don't need a cabinet or mics anymore! It can also reduce the volume of the speaker for practicing.

This works also pretty well with my other amp, a Vox AC-50 which doesn't have any other output than the cabinet jack.

http://www.koch-amps.com/products/index ... N=24551821

There probably are other manufacturers, but Koch gives a very warm & natural sound.

[keithm]

Hi: don't even attempt this without a speaker simulator/load box. A valve amp without a propper speaker load will blow up! Also the speaker out is much higher than a line out and it would literally blow the soundcard up too. Your line out is a few millivolts while a speaker out on a valve amp is above 50 Volts! One thing I have tried is to use the guitarsuite JCM 800 plugin, then feed the output through SIR reverb with a speaker cabinet impulse - works pretty well.

If you do want to record the speaker output, as well as the link left from some one else, Palmer made a really good speaker sim, maybe you could find one on Ebay. But, if you search the web I think you will find some home made designs. Here's a link

http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/ssim.html

It's down at the moment but if you remove the /ssim.html you will see a message saying ther site is under maintainance..

[Lunch Money]

Another related question that I was wondering about earlier today--

In a setup that uses a DI box, are there any drawbacks or benefits to going to a mixer first instead of right to the soundcard? Or is that how it's normally done in the first place?

I have a solid-state practice amp (Marshall DFX-30) with an "emulated line-out". Could I use that in place of a cheap DI box (ie. the Behringer DI-100) or would I be better off with the DI?

I've been thinking about tone a lot lately... and for me the best option in terms of flexibility is still to record a fairly clean signal and then add the "amp" with a VST simulator later-- so for now I just have to figure out how to get the best clean signal into the card.

Greg

[cptgone]

My Line6 Flextone II has some miked amp simulation called AIR on the line out (well, actually, the head phone out). OK for me. Newer models feature AIR II.

[Lunch Money]

This one supposedly features some speaker sim called fdd, but with headphones on, depressing the switch doesn't seem to do anything. <shrug>

Greg

[C00kie]

So, Lunch Money, you got a DI and a mixer and a Marshall amp, so thats a lot of combinations to pick from!

I run everything through my mixer. It offers loads of options for colouring, routing & monitoring, and is far more easy to connect to than directly into the card (don't have to unplug anything in order to record something else.) So the benefit is flexibility.

So if you get the amp sound from a VST, I would plug the guitar directly into the mixer. A DI is handy if you want to split the signal, but in a home setup you don't need that.

And don't bother too much about loss in the signal if you have a pretty ok mixing console. You wouldn't notice it in the final mix

[Lunch Money]

No, I actually don't have a DI. Just trying to figure out if it'd be wortwhile, because I'm not happy with the unprocessed guitar signal just going through the mixer (a small little UB802). Part of that is due to the fact that I'm recording with flat EQ, so it really WON'T sound like a good guitar sound....

However, I still feel that something's missing.

The Marshall isn't one of their more impressive models; it's just a solid-state practice amp. However, I'm wondering if its 'emulated' (what the heck does that mean?) line-out would be the same as using a DI box, or if the DI would have some sort of mysterious advantage.

The reason I ask is that in another thread, a quick guide to studio setups (at Tweakheads.com) indicated both a mixer AND a DI, so I'm trying to suss the benefits of getting a DI (and again, if the Marshall's line-out would work just as well).



In an ideal world, I wouldn't have neighbors and I could afford a tube amp with some good microphones. Until then, I gotta figure out a better way to get my signal recorded.

Sorry to hijack the thread; hopefully my own concerns are on-topic enough.

Greg

[Lunch Money]

Back-to-back posts... I should be smacked.

I mentioned the DI-100, but for the price (and because I do vocals as well), I was thinking something like THIS might be handy.

Greg

[keithm]

A DI box just alters the impedeance of the output of a guitar (which is Hi) to low impedeance for long cable runs, or in the case of an active DI box, they some times boost the level to line level. A DI box won't improve or change the sound, they are designed to leave it alone! You can usually run the headphone output to the line in of a soundcard (if you keep the levels down). The was also a Hughes & Kentner speaker sim called the Red Box cabinetulator! But you will pay more for a speaker sim/load box then for something like the V-Amp2.

Another (cheap) thing to try is get a second hand HiFi graphic qualizer and run the line out through it before plugining it into the soundcard. Then turn down the sliders above 8K and boot the mid..

[Lunch Money]

I'll try to file that one away in memory. No doubt I'll find a crappy hi-fi graphic EQ at a garage sale sometime.

Thanks for that clarification. No need for the DI in my particular setup, then, as the Mixer already matches impedance. Though the Mic-200 still looks interesting if for no other reason than for vocal and instrument limiting. A reasonable (I'm not expecting miracles for $109 CDN) limiter could help out a lot around here. I'm always dicking around trying not to clip while maintaining a hot enough signal.

Greg

[Stupid American Pig]

I have tried the line out on my fender amp to get authentic spring reverb, it works, and sounds decent, but there is some serious noise, well not too bad, but slightly more than I would like to hear