donkeyt-state of nature-indie shoegaze house?

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donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
6457 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire

Post Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:24 pm

Electronic Donkey Music, or something. :hihi:

http://www.bennyleeds7.myfreeola.uk/don ... nature.mp3

After the mostly unmitigated indie gloom of my last collection of musings (gratuitous plug -it's here and costs nowt https://donkeyt.bandcamp.com/album/the- ... the-donkey) I thought I would start writing this time with something a bit more upbeat and a bit different. May have succeeded on the latter count..

I may have at some point said I didn't like that popular 'sidechain' effect malarky....Errr... well, why should the young whippersnappers be the only annoying ones - I did it with indie rokk geetars and bass VI (in Fiesta Red) though because I'm f**king cool. :scared:

A bit weird in it's own way - no real chorus or owt, some quite odd chord voicings in places (yer DAD's GADs tuning) distortion, bass VI (of course), lof-fi bits, sinthesisers, strummy acoustics, big fuckoff 909 kick, singing is a bit, 'off the cuff'..Mebbe it works, mebbe not.. Perhaps file under 'interesting diversion.'

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Karma_tba
KVRian
1101 posts since 12 Aug, 2004

Re: donkeyt-state of nature-indie shoegaze house?

Post Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:18 pm

Nice …….but too loud. Dynamics....Dynamics!!!

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Forgotten
KVRAF
7471 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: donkeyt-state of nature-indie shoegaze house?

Post Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:50 pm

Interesting. I think the lack of a chorus is a bit odd considering your other stuff, but I like the breaks and the filtering on the drums - makes it hard to tell what to expect next.

Wouldn’t mind hearing a few more experiments in this vein.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
17951 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: donkeyt-state of nature-indie shoegaze house?

Post Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:09 pm

Well, if you were going for annoying with that sidechain, mission accomplished. It didn't, however, totally destroy the tune. The rest of it was very interesting. Not like your usual stuff but interesting just the same. Outside of the sidechain crap, I actually enjoyed it. Reminds me of an updated 60s underground psychedelic piece. Kind of like 13th Floor Elevators stuff.

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donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
6457 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire

Re: donkeyt-state of nature-indie shoegaze house?

Post Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:42 pm

Karma_tba wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:18 pm
Nice …….but too loud. Dynamics....Dynamics!!!
Hehe, I think the sidechaining effect probably makes it sound more squashed than it actually is. The end is a bit hot and I might look at that, but there is a lot of variation in levels in general, probably more than it seems!
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donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
6457 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire

Re: donkeyt-state of nature-indie shoegaze house?

Post Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:46 pm

Forgotten wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:50 pm

Wouldn’t mind hearing a few more experiments in this vein.
I've got form from a few years ago for the disco-filter bollocks!

http://www.bennyleeds7.myfreeola.uk/03- ... always.mp3

Always good to f**k about with such things now and again. :scared:
Last edited by donkey tugger on Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
6457 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire

Re: donkeyt-state of nature-indie shoegaze house?

Post Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:50 pm

wagtunes wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:09 pm
Well, if you were going for annoying with that sidechain, mission accomplished. It didn't, however, totally destroy the tune. The rest of it was very interesting. Not like your usual stuff but interesting just the same. Outside of the sidechain crap, I actually enjoyed it. Reminds me of an updated 60s underground psychedelic piece. Kind of like 13th Floor Elevators stuff.
Aye, not a technique I'll be using again in a hurry....probably :hihi: More of an experiment than anything else, before getting back into the serious business of the indie-rokk.. :love:

codec_spurt
KVRAF
3994 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: donkeyt-state of nature-indie shoegaze house?

Post Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:02 pm

Loved the acoustic intro but it just went weird with the sucking sidechaining (not that it sucked but you know what I mean).

Experimental work.

Sometimes you have to push the boundaries, just because, and maybe it gives good stuff for later
"One never loves enough" - R.D. Laing.

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donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
6457 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire

Re: donkeyt-state of nature-indie shoegaze house?

Post Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:51 am

codec_spurt wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:02 pm
Loved the acoustic intro but it just went weird with the sucking sidechaining (not that it sucked but you know what I mean).

Experimental work.

Sometimes you have to push the boundaries, just because, and maybe it gives good stuff for later
Indeed, got to try this stuff sometimes!

Been quite focused on the more indie type stuff of late, but I'm thinking it's time to cast the net a bit wider again and ripoff and ruin some other genres again.

In my head I've got plans for;

Wholly acoustic thing
Motown/Norvern soul stylee thing
Something full on c(o)untry
Funky donkey
Noise pop in the JAMC style
More Byrds ripoff jangle
The Metel

Best laid plans etc..... :hihi:

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15400 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: donkeyt-state of nature-indie shoegaze house?

Post Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:03 am

Lovin’ the side-chain :shrug: Clearly a divisive technique, which can often be abused. But in the right context, like all studio techniques, it can really work. This, for me, is one of those occasions. It not only creates interest, but really drives the off-beat, and creates a rocky skank feel.

My only criticism again comes down to the levelling/mixing of the vocals. Volume and dynamics-wise it really sticks too far out above everything else. Getting that vocal in the pocket, and then perhaps adding a bit more overall ‘glue’ would really elevate this out of bedroom-studio-ville.

Given that your vocals normally follow a similar journey of dynamics through your songs (Not a negative criticism), I wonder if it might be worth spending some time dialling in a vocal-chain that would account for these patterns, that could be your go-to for each track. And then on a case-by-case basis you could tweak compression and do the necessary volume-riding.

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donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
6457 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire

Re: donkeyt-state of nature-indie shoegaze house?

Post Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:35 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:03 am
Lovin’ the side-chain :shrug: Clearly a divisive technique, which can often be abused. But in the right context, like all studio techniques, it can really work. This, for me, is one of those occasions. It not only creates interest, but really drives the off-beat, and creates a rocky skank feel.

My only criticism again comes down to the levelling/mixing of the vocals. Volume and dynamics-wise it really sticks too far out above everything else. Getting that vocal in the pocket, and then perhaps adding a bit more overall ‘glue’ would really elevate this out of bedroom-studio-ville.

Given that your vocals normally follow a similar journey of dynamics through your songs (Not a negative criticism), I wonder if it might be worth spending some time dialling in a vocal-chain that would account for these patterns, that could be your go-to for each track. And then on a case-by-case basis you could tweak compression and do the necessary volume-riding.
I think I've said before - always takes me a while to sort out vocal levels, need to live with the mix etc, so comments like this are always useful.

I do have a default chain for the main vocal (2 compressors, tape sim, de-esser slapback delay, reverb, adjustment eq) which fulfils the function as above. Sometimes I may be a bit shoddy at setting the relative gain levels etc however... :hihi:

I'll have another stab at it later on and post a new version.

Cheers!

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15400 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: donkeyt-state of nature-indie shoegaze house?

Post Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:00 am

I don't envy you - Vocals are normally pretty difficult to mix right. Not sure I could do any better, just sayin' what I hear.

You say you use two compressors. One at each end? :scared:

sjm
KVRAF
1986 posts since 17 Apr, 2004

Re: donkeyt-state of nature-indie shoegaze house?

Post Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:52 am

donkey tugger wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:24 pm
I may have at some point said I didn't like that popular 'sidechain' effect malarky....Errr... well, why should the young whippersnappers be the only annoying ones - I did it with indie rokk geetars and bass VI (in Fiesta Red) though because I'm f**king cool. :scared:
Did I unwittingly start a trend with the "sidechain your guitars" thing?

If it's any consolation, opinion was equally split, with a lot of the kids thinking it was the bomb and the older crowd saying it sounded like overly limited crap with no dynamics...
Voted KVR's resident drunk Robert Smith impersonator (thanks Frantz!)

https://soundcloud.com/steevm/

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donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
6457 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire

Re: donkeyt-state of nature-indie shoegaze house?

Post Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:41 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:00 am


You say you use two compressors. One at each end? :scared:
I'll be off to the quoted out of context thread with the above in a minute... :hihi:

Yes, a fast one to stamp on the peaks, and then a slower one straight after to gently glue stuff. It's a real actual thing, not some shite I made up when pissed....

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/how-t ... on-vocals/

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donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
6457 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire

Re: donkeyt-state of nature-indie shoegaze house?

Post Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:42 am

sjm wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:52 am
donkey tugger wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:24 pm
I may have at some point said I didn't like that popular 'sidechain' effect malarky....Errr... well, why should the young whippersnappers be the only annoying ones - I did it with indie rokk geetars and bass VI (in Fiesta Red) though because I'm f**king cool. :scared:
Did I unwittingly start a trend with the "sidechain your guitars" thing?

If it's any consolation, opinion was equally split, with a lot of the kids thinking it was the bomb and the older crowd saying it sounded like overly limited crap with no dynamics...
Hehe, forgot you'd done that too. Ripped you off! :hihi:

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