Oldtimer fans are completely nuts.anomandaris1 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:07 pm Here are some prices, taking in account inflation:
Korg M1
Released: 1988
Original price: $2166
$4,709.32 in 2019
Yamaha DX7
Released: 1983
Original price: $2000
5,164.82 in 2019
PPG Wave
Released: 1981
Original price: $7,000
$19,807.00 in 2019
Fairlight CMI
Released: 1979
Original price: $27,500
$97,427.27 in 2019
Sequential Circuits Prophet-5
Released: 1978
Original price: $4495
$20,318.98 in 2019
Yamaha CS-80
Released: 1976
Original price: $6900
$6,900 in 1976 → $31,190.43 in 2019
Are MPE Controllers a fad ?
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- KVRAF
- 35439 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
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- KVRAF
- 5627 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium
The Seaboard technology is used live all over.
AR Rahman has used the Seaboard GRAND in his live concerts and live TV appearances. Jordan Rudess has used the GRAND and the RISE during a Dream Theatre tour. Marco Parisi is using it live. Bill Laurence (of Snarky Puppy) has used the Seaboard GRAND live (most notably at the Union Chapel in London), young guys like Flume use loads of BLOCKS live (was it 16 Blocks he uses at the same time?)...the list goes on. You might not see any Seaboards on a dark stage as they are black and melt into the background!
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- KVRian
- 513 posts since 26 Nov, 2009
Unless you are some kind of octopus (and find a way to use these knobs, faders and pads per voice polyphonically), it's not a competition to MPE...DJ Warmonger wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:30 pmCheapest roli has 2 octaves, for the same price you can get quite a piece of MIDI controller with knobs, faders or pads.So, you are ready to drop 150 on generic midi controller, but not around 200 on cheapest Roli (or something similar) when there is a sale?
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- KVRAF
- 35439 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
Depends what you're aiming for, I guess. Sometimes you just want to play notes, sometimes you just want to tweak parameters. Or use drum pads. Or, move faders. It's no competition, that's true, because it isn't in the same ballpark.
You definitely have a lot more hardware elements on a controller like the one Warmonger described though. Which makes me wonder what's so damn expensive about MPE that such a low tier controller already costs that much.
Wonder what's the cheapest Roli anyway. The cheapest I see is 250 € for the Seaboard Block. You can get a pretty good 49 key MIDI controller for that price. Something comparable, a 2 octave keyboard controller with no additional controls would be about 90 € for a Arturia, which has pretty good keys. So, yeah, pretty massive difference. I get that MPE is more expensive, but, those are quite premium prices, for something which looks like as if my mother baked a cake, and let the oven on too long.
You definitely have a lot more hardware elements on a controller like the one Warmonger described though. Which makes me wonder what's so damn expensive about MPE that such a low tier controller already costs that much.
Wonder what's the cheapest Roli anyway. The cheapest I see is 250 € for the Seaboard Block. You can get a pretty good 49 key MIDI controller for that price. Something comparable, a 2 octave keyboard controller with no additional controls would be about 90 € for a Arturia, which has pretty good keys. So, yeah, pretty massive difference. I get that MPE is more expensive, but, those are quite premium prices, for something which looks like as if my mother baked a cake, and let the oven on too long.
Last edited by chk071 on Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- KVRAF
- 35297 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
Better than Bitwig?
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- KVRian
- 513 posts since 26 Nov, 2009
There are quite expensive regular midi keyboards, too.
I have used some cheap ones over the years and they definitely feel like playing plastic garbage (and let's not ignore the usual "The California Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment warning about chemicals that cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm "), but even some (not that cheap) guitars I have bought come with this warning...
I have used some cheap ones over the years and they definitely feel like playing plastic garbage (and let's not ignore the usual "The California Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment warning about chemicals that cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm "), but even some (not that cheap) guitars I have bought come with this warning...
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- KVRAF
- 6468 posts since 17 Dec, 2009
i really don't see how these two compete.DJ Warmonger wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:30 pm
I think that NI with NKS perceives MPE as competition. Now they have their own keyboards and plugins with extra level of integration, without using MPE. MPE would give more potential to competing controllers and plugins, while NI would need to adjust all their products for MPE to stay in game.
u-he updated for both, and its a completely unrelated set of functionality.
MPE is geared towards playability and expression at controller level, and NKS is geared towards better software integration.
And in any case, MPE is just a band-aid for MIDI limitations, as someone else already mentioned.
MIDI 2.0 might be rivalling NKS with its mythical "automating" reconfiguration, but this again has nothing to do with MPE.
NI could make an MPE controller that would take absolute advantage of NKS system, it's just added functionality, nothing overlaps.
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- KVRAF
- 5627 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium
@aMused,
To be honest, I haven't used Bitwig for ages, so my conclusion may not be accurate and it could include Bitwig as well, as I know they have worked on MPE a lot.
To be honest, I haven't used Bitwig for ages, so my conclusion may not be accurate and it could include Bitwig as well, as I know they have worked on MPE a lot.
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- KVRAF
- 6468 posts since 17 Dec, 2009
I don't want hardware controllers on a midi keyboard tho, i have 50$ fidgets for that (novation launch control, behringer xtouch mini)chk071 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:40 pm You definitely have a lot more hardware elements on a controller like the one Warmonger described though. Which makes me wonder what's so damn expensive about MPE that such a low tier controller already costs that much.
Wonder what's the cheapest Roli anyway. The cheapest I see is 250 € for the Seaboard Block. You can get a pretty good 49 key MIDI controller for that price. Something comparable, a 2 octave keyboard controller with no additional controls would be about 90 € for a Arturia, which has pretty good keys. So, yeah, pretty massive difference. I get that MPE is more expensive, but, those are quite premium prices, for something which looks like as if my mother baked a cake, and let the oven on too long.
Cheapest blocks went for like 150€ a couple of weeks ago on thomann, but it was one off.
It looks great in person tho, its solid AF and fun to play. My gf has the block, i have the rise25 and two Lightpads.
I love my lightpad for sketching down ideas, because it fits two octaves in a tiny block its easy to carry around or just have on the desk on all times and you have access to two octaves with it, flip the mode and you have 3 faders, flip it again and you have an X/Y pad - all with visual feedback and a nice feeling smooshy surface.
If you look at DIY midi kits, couple of faders and knobs is generally cheap AF even if you wanna do DIY. A grid of sensors and a silicone mould is not as cheap.
Apples to oranges tho.DJ Warmonger wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:30 pm Cheapest roli has 2 octaves, for the same price you can get quite a piece of MIDI controller with knobs, faders or pads.
Knobs faders and pads are not a multitouch interface, and are not similar in one bit.
And one doesn't replace the other at all. I still use knobs and faders for some things, but i use roli for others, mostly playing stuff.
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- KVRAF
- 35439 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2417 posts since 28 Mar, 2007
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- KVRist
- 165 posts since 23 Aug, 2017
Not really. MPE has already been "approved", whatever that means.
Companies like Korg and Roland are not "big guns" when it comes to forward-thinking electronic music creation. They mostly cater to gigging musicians who are stubborn and resistant to change. I mean, they are still pumping out workstation keyboards like it is 1999.
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- KVRAF
- 5627 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium
Which is what I wrote in the same post this quote is from. It is 'approved' by the MIDI Manufacturers Association, and has been accepted by the public at large as a new thing to keep an eye for, but I think if the big corporations were to release MPE controllers too, it would tell a lot of doubters that this no longer the domain of some 'fringe', boutique companies and that it is worthwhile to spend their hard earned money on this tech.lastmessiah wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:24 pmNot really. MPE has already been "approved", whatever that means.
By 'big guns', I meant large, long standing, successful companies with a synth/instrument making heritage, and those that have the finance and resources to create anything they want. And the reason they are here is because of the fact that they cater to the needs of the masses. My hope is that the masses will see the benefit of these expressive instruments and keep buying them, and that in turn the 'big guns' will see it worthwhile to take a punt and create their own take on the MPE controller. Whatever the shape or form.lastmessiah wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:24 pm Companies like Korg and Roland are not "big guns" when it comes to forward-thinking electronic music creation. They mostly cater to gigging musicians who are stubborn and resistant to change. I mean, they are still pumping out workstation keyboards like it is 1999.