KVR Audio

fairlyclose · Post by **fairlyclose** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:06 am

I have so much trouble using midi and audio combined projects in Reaper on Win10 that I am going to have to learn another DAW and sell stuff off to buy it. Reaper is just f**ked when it comes to VSTis like Kontakt and Falcon. Obviously, to preempt anyone wanting to dissuade me and try and fix Reaper I understand no-one in history has ever had this problem and I dont even have this problem.
But pretending I am not lying and Reaper actually is unreliable for the projects I often do, I would like to have some feedback on other DAWs that are good for midi and not bad for audio
[more preempting - I have used Reaper since it first came on the market and my experience is that it gets less stable with each iteration - which does leave me with the option of rewinding back to v4.x and seeing how that goes]

What I want is basically a stable version of Reaper plus midi - so excellent audio editing capabilities but also excellent midi and handling of vsti's, which Reaper lacks.
I have looked at :
LIVE - really expensive but seems like it is a pretty good candidate - is it stable?
Bitwig is too basic for audio editing
Studio One seems a bit basic eg the stretch algorithm isnt very good
Samplitude has everything I want except stability - I used to own S4
Cubase is f**king expensive - cannot afford it and not attracted to a dongle and got mega ripped off in the old Steinberg days and that puts me off the company
Cakewalk - very different paradigm to reaper, but is it good? How is the audio editing?
FL Studio - if the audio editing was good I would be happy with FL - the paradigm is different, but has a lot going for it as far as midi goes.

Thoughts, alternatives? I understand I am going to have to put some serious effort into demo-ing, but I'd like to target the demos sensibly

jinotsuh · Post by **jinotsuh** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:14 am

fairlyclose wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:06 am Reaper is just f**ked

Here here, not a truer word said

Personally I'd go for Studio One, but if you have tried that and it's not for you, maybe, and against my better judgement, give Cakewalk by Bandlab (CbB) a try, you will either gel with it or you wont, it will either work great for you or it wont. If it works out for you great, it'll cost you nothing. If it doesn't work out for you, well no harm done, it cost you nothing but time to try.

Apart from that, just demo stuff and see if you like it.

fairlyclose · Post by **fairlyclose** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:02 am

I've just had what I would think of as a typical Reaper experience. The program was unusable on a project - could not even get a sound out of Falcon. So I thought I'd try some older version -portable installs (which is what I always use)> tried a v4 - worked, tried a v5, worked. went back to v6 - worked.
Now I saved a new version of my project - that worked in v6, went back to the unworkable version - that also worked now in v6.

It is this sort of experience that has me looking to find an alternative - Reaper has still been fine for me using audio files only - and has a lot of good aspects to audio editing, but to be so unreliable as it definitely is for me makes it unusable in any serious project where I am being paid - or even if it just for fun coz there is no fun in something that works then stops working an hour later when the program and project have not even been shut down and restarted.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:53 am

fairlyclose wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:06 am Bitwig is too basic for audio editing

Sorry, but that's just not true. It can do almost everything other DAWs can (it can't quantize audio) it's just that the workflow needs some time to wrap your head around, because their idea of clip containers f**ked some things up, without giving any benefits in return.

But it's anything but basic.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:54 am

Also, one would think you're fairly close to picking a DAW by now, considering number of vs. threads you've posted

DS_Joost · Post by **DS_Joost** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:25 am

Have you tried Reaper, Bitwig yadda yadda

fairlyclose · Post by **fairlyclose** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:29 am

antic604 wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:53 am
fairlyclose wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:06 am Bitwig is too basic for audio editing
Sorry, but that's just not true. It can do almost everything other DAWs can (it can't quantize audio) it's just that the workflow needs some time to wrap your head around, because their idea of clip containers f**ked some things up, without giving any benefits in return.

But it's anything but basic.

I thought it was clunky with crossfades - I did try a demo but maybe I have misremembered

EDIT - just looked at a youtube of crossfading an it looks great - must just be my old Bitwig 8 or whatever it was at the time did not have it I just plain misremembered. Bitwig has a lot going for it

fairlyclose · Post by **fairlyclose** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:31 am

antic604 wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:54 am Also, one would think you're fairly close to picking a DAW by now, considering number of vs. threads you've posted

now where did I put that groan emoji

without a doubt it has been a love hate relationship, without a doubt a lot of that is because I am too much of a cheapskate to get something else and too lazy to learn something else - the problem for me is when Reaper works it is great for what I do, but then it just stops working for what seems like no reason at all. And starts again for much the same no reason at all.

fairlyclose · Post by **fairlyclose** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:21 am

antic604 wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:53 am
fairlyclose wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:06 am Bitwig is too basic for audio editing
Sorry, but that's just not true. It can do almost everything other DAWs can (it can't quantize audio) it's just that the workflow needs some time to wrap your head around, because their idea of clip containers f**ked some things up, without giving any benefits in return.

But it's anything but basic.

I have been looking around at videos on youtube and Bitwig does look very good - but it is not very compatible with working to video - thats pretty much the end of it for me. If they ever get basic video functions for composing to picture I will definitely be tempted

auricle · Post by **auricle** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:58 am

I suggest giving a Cakewalk a try - it is free if you don't mind signing up for an account. I'm on Mac now otherwise I'd put it in my DAW arsenal (I have several). Since Bandlab took it over it's had continuous improvements and stability fixes. As for MIDI, it started life as a MIDI only sequencer like Cubase and Logic (Creator & Notator way back when) so it's pretty robust.

wetdentist · Post by **wetdentist** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:01 am

+1 Cakewalk

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:05 am

Long time Cubase user here. Took a number of years out of music and recently got back into it, and got back into Cubase too. Just a thought...have you considered Cubase Artist rather than the full pro version? I used to use the full version, but when I looked at the spec this time around, Artist has most of the stuff you need for most of the time, and when I look back - I only ever used a fraction of the facilities in older full versions. I can't be 100% sure off the top of my head, but I don't think Artist does the full quantizing audio, but it has most of the other important stuff. And half the price. I noticed there's a half price upgrade offer on now for Artist to pro...but TBH Artist is likely to keep me going for a long time with all the stuff it has.

Someone mentioned Cakewalk - I used that for a few months just as a freebie to do at least something while I considered which DAW to finally buy...it drove me nuts. Very clunky to control IMO. I guess for free, you can't have everything, but...I could only work with it for a very limited time and through gritted teeth.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:26 am

fairlyclose wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:21 am
antic604 wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:53 am
fairlyclose wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:06 am Bitwig is too basic for audio editing
Sorry, but that's just not true. It can do almost everything other DAWs can (it can't quantize audio) it's just that the workflow needs some time to wrap your head around, because their idea of clip containers f**ked some things up, without giving any benefits in return.

But it's anything but basic.
I have been looking around at videos on youtube and Bitwig does look very good - but it is not very compatible with working to video - thats pretty much the end of it for me. If they ever get basic video functions for composing to picture I will definitely be tempted

But you said "audio editing", not "video editing". If you said the latter I'd not object, obviously

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:28 am

If you are serious about using MIDI, audio, and virtual instruments, then Cubase is your answer. The only one that could rival to Cubase when it comes to MIDI and MIDI tools is Digital Performer. Actually, that would be my second choice.

fairlyclose · Post by **fairlyclose** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:29 am

fmr wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:28 am If you are serious about using MIDI, audio, and virtual instruments, then Cubase is your answer. The only one that could rival to Cubase when it comes to MIDI and MIDI tools is Digital Performer. Actually, that would be my second choice.

why do you say that? What tools does Cubase offer that are unique or with superior workflow. Looking at Bitwig, the modulation is very comprehensive but I am unfamiliar with what is on offer in Cubase

what are the DAWs that are good for Audio and Midi