FL Studio limiting algorithm

[Hillbom]

hi all!

I started my music career in FL Studio 9 years ago, after some years I switched to Logic then to Ableton for the past 4 years. I have had my opinions on FL since I switched.
FL studio has a sound to it, sometimes you could tell by the sound if someone is using FL, mostly beginners.

I'm in the trap/hip-hop genre, and most of the hiphop-producers i watch use FL. And for some time now I've been struggling to get my beats to punch in a certain way like the FL producers beats do. For a while I just figured they had some great sounding samples that I just didn't have, until I actually downloaded FL after 4 years and tried to make a beat, and I was blown away. I didn't have to do any serious mixing for it to sound good, just cranked everything to 0 and there was no noticeable clashing between frequencies. The kick and 808 just sounded like one unit. I then made the EXAKT same beat with the EXAKT same samples and all the levels set exactly the same. And below is the two beats...

ABLETON: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hngpr5fxcdg17 ... t.wav?dl=0
FL Studio: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2iaeb50e9a9hi ... t.wav?dl=0

Why is it that the FL beat sound mixed and well limited? I noticed that the default template had the Fruity Limiter on and I of course turned that off to get a good comparison.

I'm now actually considering switching back to FL just for this, even though I love everything about Ableton.

Question: Is there anyway I can modify my default Ableton template to act like FL Studio sound wise?

[lessera]

If you take a look at the waveform that dropbox creates for your MP3 files, it looks like the 808 on the Ableton example is running too hot. The FL shows a more controlled melding of the kick/808. Look at how the kick is represented by a slim peak, and the sustained 808 registers at about half the power of the kick's peak.

The Ableton waveform doesn't show that. There is still a good representation of the kick's peak, but the sustained 808 looks as though it is nearly the same power as the kick -- which is creating an unwanted flutter in the low end of the spectrum.

My guess would be to leave the kick alone, and use a high-pass filter on the 808. Start with a low-end roll-off at 40hz, and slowly start moving it up the spectrum until the unwanted flutter is tamed.

Maybe FL has a high-pass filter enabled by default on it's mixer channels? I'm not sure... I've never spent much time with it.

[Unaspected]

Didn't listen as I'm on a laptop right now.

Maybe FL has a high-pass filter enabled by default on it's mixer channels? I'm not sure... I've never spent much time with it.

Default is all processing off. Built-in channel EQ is low shelf, peak and high shelf.

There is, however, a limiter on the master buss by default, which you will notice without correct gain staging.

It's purely subjective but I don't think there's anything all that special about FL Studio's limiter. There are much better third party limiters available.

[Hillbom]

There is, however, a limiter on the master buss by default, which you will notice without correct gain staging.

Yes as I mentioned I turned that off and with no limiting/compression/eq or what so ever the two bounces sound so different. And not only the kick and 808, the snare and hihats also sound more pleasing to my ears from the FL bounce.

[Hillbom]

My guess would be to leave the kick alone, and use a high-pass filter on the 808. Start with a low-end roll-off at 40hz, and slowly start moving it up the spectrum until the unwanted flutter is tamed.

Yes I do know how to mix the kick and 808 in Ableton so it does not clash. But what irritates me is that somehow the mix sounds exactly how I want in FL with no mixing at all, just the kick set to 0db and the 808 set to 0db. It would be interesting to know what it is in FL that makes it sound that way.

[MogwaiBoy]

I haven't look at the files but maybe you are hitting the Fruity Limiter without even knowing, and it's providing some "glue"?

[lessera]

Yes I do know how to mix the kick and 808 in Ableton so it does not clash. But what irritates me is that somehow the mix sounds exactly how I want in FL with no mixing at all, just the kick set to 0db and the 808 set to 0db. It would be interesting to know what it is in FL that makes it sound that way.

Dunno. Like I said earlier, maybe FL is doing some sort of under-the-hood attenuation of the sub-bass frequencies. Doing an analysis of both clips in Acoustica shows a fairly significant reduction in the RMS loudness of the FL test over the Ableton test, so something is going on.

If FL produces the results you're after, without having to put any legwork into proper mixing of the elements, then why not use it instead? I'd love to use a DAW that took the mundane bits of mixing out of the equation. Unfortunately, I just cannot wrap my head around FL's workflow.

[an-electric-heart]

FL has an inferior sound engine... everybody knows that.

[the-machine]

You kick in FL is louder by the initial listen and by waveform by which it doesnt seem that the levels are not exactly the same at all

[koalaboy]

Likely the Panning law (assuming everything else is truly identical as stated).

[Hillbom]

FL has an inferior sound engine... everybody knows that.

I don't know that, explain...

[Hillbom]

Unfortunately, I just cannot wrap my head around FL's workflow.

Exactly me neither, it has too many cons to be worth the extra time on mix.

[the-machine]

can you post both beats project files so users can check?

Im 10 000% sure its a mistake made on the user end. I have worked with many DAWs and they are all equal (shocking statement right?) when it comes to sound once you nullify all the variables.

[Obsolete462444]

I agree that back in the days I always felt like FL Studio / Fruity Loops always had it's own sound, though I have to say that personally I never liked that sound.

In the example you post the FL version does indeed sound a bit better though. I can only make a guess: FL version seems to have less low frequency rumble, less transient inconsistencies (more compressed sound). There might be a clandestine soft-clipping with a relative low treshold in the FL mastering stage.

But it could also be to differences in the way the internal instruments of Ableton and FL work (their sampler engine, for example Ableton Simpler - can be setup in many different ways, same with the FL standard sampler)...

Could you give a short rundown of what internal instruments you used? Also make sure (using a VU type meter) that the gain staging of each instrument is exactly the same from the Ableton and the FL version).

If it really boils down to differences in the sound engine, you could try to make a test: produce something like white noise in each DAW, export the output and compare the differences in the frequency spectrum in an external neutral audio editor (like Wavosaur).

[the-machine]

I agree that back in the days I always felt like FL Studio / Fruity Loops always had it's own sound, though I have to say that personally I never liked that sound.

In the example you post the FL version does indeed sound a bit better though. I can only make a guess: FL version seems to have less low frequency rumble, less transient inconsistencies (more compressed sound). There might be a clandestine soft-clipping with a relative low treshold in the FL mastering stage.

Come on, not that BS again people didnt internet covered those myths ?