Turn It Around (with lyrics) ...[ Retro / Pop ]... feedback welcome

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Bansaw
KVRian
1275 posts since 19 Aug, 2008

Post Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:04 am

My latest. A pop song.
Feedback welcome on mixing, arrangement, songwriting etc.
I got a new Brass horns library; took it for a spin.
https://soundcloud.com/bansaw-843690132/turn-it-around

Lyrics:
I'm looking back
I'm trying to see
All the things I've done to
deserve this

I'm looking back
the problem's with me
What could I have done to
reverse this

I don't want to think about it
it's too late
I don't want to muse about it
it's all fate
I don't want to think about it
go hate
But, I'm wondering if I can

Turn it around and lets start it again
Turn it around and get out of the rain
Turn it around and come into the light
Turn it around and let the sun shine bright

I'm looking back
I'm findin' the key
to all the things I've done to
traverse this

I'm looking back
is the problem with me?
or is it really with you?
do I deserve this?
Last edited by Bansaw on Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
19974 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Post Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:08 am

Always look forward to a new one from you. Love the way you produced this. It's big and loud and is all 80s. The vocals are nice and quirky with the melody kind of going all over the place. Love it. Gotta ask, so what's the new brass library? Don't keep us in suspense.

Anywho, well done. took me back about 35 years.

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Frantz
KVRAF
5436 posts since 18 Jul, 2008 from New York

Post Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:03 am

The verse gets off to a very strong start with the vocals and the backing track sounding great. However, it loses momentum in the "I don't want to think about it" section which sounds weaker in comparison. The brass going into the chorus sounds promising but then the chorus seems to sit on one chord and feels a bit monotonous. My suggestion is to spend more time on the writing before spending any time on the arrangement or working with libraries.

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layzer
KVRAF
7195 posts since 11 Jun, 2006

Post Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:13 am

never sacrifice clarity for loudness....never ever
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enroe
KVRian
1286 posts since 19 Mar, 2008 from germany

Post Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:08 pm

Great song. I especially like the way you sing and your lyrics.

After the first use of brass, one has the feeling that the stringency
is missing something, it becomes a little more monotonous, but
perhaps it fits the lyrical statement just fine.

All in all I enjoyed it! :tu:
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs + weird stuff: enroe.de

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Bansaw
KVRian
1275 posts since 19 Aug, 2008

Post Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:39 am

wagtunes wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:08 am
Always look forward to a new one from you. Love the way you produced this. It's big and loud and is all 80s. The vocals are nice and quirky with the melody kind of going all over the place. Love it. Gotta ask, so what's the new brass library? Don't keep us in suspense.
Anywho, well done. took me back about 35 years.
thanks Wags. The brass is NI Session Horns Pro. I've since found a way of layering it to make it sound bigger. The quirky melody going all over the place was a challenge. The sections of the song are very different, major chorus, minor verse, and a quirky pre-chorus. I tried to make them all fit together. Oh well, it was a learning experience.

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Bansaw
KVRian
1275 posts since 19 Aug, 2008

Post Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:24 pm

Frantz wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:03 am
The verse gets off to a very strong start with the vocals and the backing track sounding great. However, it loses momentum in the "I don't want to think about it" section which sounds weaker in comparison. The brass going into the chorus sounds promising but then the chorus seems to sit on one chord and feels a bit monotonous. My suggestion is to spend more time on the writing before spending any time on the arrangement or working with libraries.
Thanks Frantz. Ironically I spent perhaps more time on this song compared to my others! I rewrote the vocal melody 5 times. :s
My pre-chorus is always less intense to make my chorus seem more powerful and stand out more (a Max Martin trick), but my issue with the pre-chorus was that I think its just "too different". I got the horns library when my song was in its final stages and thought I'd insert them somewhere appropriate.

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Bansaw
KVRian
1275 posts since 19 Aug, 2008

Post Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:30 am

layzer wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:13 am
never sacrifice clarity for loudness....never ever
Thanks for the comment Layzer. Is there a part of the song you feel is distorted or lacks clarity?

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Frantz
KVRAF
5436 posts since 18 Jul, 2008 from New York

Post Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:42 pm

Bansaw wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:24 pm
Thanks Frantz. Ironically I spent perhaps more time on this song compared to my others! I rewrote the vocal melody 5 times. :s
My pre-chorus is always less intense to make my chorus seem more powerful and stand out more (a Max Martin trick), but my issue with the pre-chorus was that I think its just "too different". I got the horns library when my song was in its final stages and thought I'd insert them somewhere appropriate.
Sorry, it was a bit presumptuous of me to suggest spending more time on the writing. Consider my feedback one data point which can be disregarded. :clown:

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Bansaw
KVRian
1275 posts since 19 Aug, 2008

Post Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:53 pm

Frantz wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:42 pm
Sorry, it was a bit presumptuous of me to suggest spending more time on the writing. Consider my feedback one data point which can be disregarded. :clown:
No problem. : )
Looking back, I should have ditched this song instead of trying to make it work, and trying to rewrite it half a dozen times. I have an "ideas" folder full of sketches some of which are better than this song.
Should have gone with one of those. Maybe its pride, "I can make this work", instead of thinking, "this is not up to standard, its a dud, time to move on to something else."

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pekbro
KVRAF
3280 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Post Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:19 pm

Impressive effort :tu: I did think the vocal treatment felt a little off. The sudden chorus towards the end
seemed like it could have used some light build up earlier in the song, maybe some more atmosphere so
it would make it sit a little better. If it were me, I would look to eventide for some vocal processors to
give them a more interesting foundation.

Of course, I probably don't really know wtf I'm talking about. :D Enjoyed it just the same.

-Cheers

User avatar
ATS
KVRAF
6863 posts since 21 Dec, 2002 from MD USA

Post Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:49 pm

You HAD to been told this before but you sound so much like Bryan Ferry. Really lucky to have such an amazing voice. With that said not sure why but some of the vocals sounded just a little off to me. I don't know why exactly but a tad out of tune or something. Maybe I am the only one hearing this? Anyhow I really enjoyed it a lot. Congrats! :tu:
my music: http://www.alexcooperusa.com
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aaron aardvark
KVRAF
1858 posts since 22 Jan, 2011 from near Los Angeles

Post Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:36 pm

Bansaw,
Instrumentally reminded me of Depeche Mode until the guitar kicked in (not a bad thing). Your vocals sounded a little pitchy at times on first listen, though sounded better on second listen. Your vocals remind me of Dave Gahan, which is a good thing in my opinion. I own NI Session Horns (not Pro); your horns sound good! I think I might not be very handy with NI & Kontakt Player. It took me over 12 hours of fiddling with Session Horns until I got it to work in Cubase (not my first NI purchase either); and I've hardly mastered it. I've learned with NI "India" that unless I start a new song by starting with an older song that already has NI Kontakt "India" or "Session Horns" in it (and deleting most everything else), I have a very difficult time getting it working. I've never had so much trouble with plug-ins I've owned before (and I own many plug-ins). From what I recall, there are ~760 pages of instructions just for Kontakt. Do you struggle much with Kontakt software? I liked the female vocals. I liked most of the melodies on first listen; liked even more on second listen. Nice song. :)

User avatar
Bansaw
KVRian
1275 posts since 19 Aug, 2008

Post Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:54 am

@pekbro - thanks for the comments, mcuh appreciated. For Eventide I just own Blackhole. I know Soundtoys do some similar stuff. Any particular Eventide plugin you recommend? (I have Nectar and Vocalsynth, I use Nectar a lot, but not Vocalsynth which I guess could thicken up vocals.)
@ATS - thanks! I've been told I sound like Dave Gahan a lot, but not Bryan Ferry. I'll take that! One of my favourite all time songs is Roxy Music "Oh Yeah". Amazing.
@Aaron - After I finsihed the track I found a way of getting the Horns to sound better. But it does involve a lot of layering and panning (6 tracks). I'm really happy with the sound now. The Horns in this track sound a little thin by comparison. I've had good experiences with Kontakt. Although a few nights ago my Sunburst Electric guitar froze up a few times. I have 32Gb memory on board so things tend to run more smoothly since I upgraded my memory.

SparkySpark
KVRAF
1905 posts since 30 Aug, 2004 from Lancaster, UK

Post Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:14 pm

Hey what a feelgood eighties track! :tu: Awesome job overall.

I'm away from my studio so I listen to this song on a new set of headphones, so perhaps I shouldn't comment on levels, but here goes anyway: I think the drums (great as they are) are a bit too loud. I'd turn then down (not around :D) and raise the guitar a notch instead.

Horns are great, and kudos on the synth treatment as well.

The song's kind of quirky as there is so much going on in these four minutes, but that is also typical for the eighties: a lot of experimentation in those songs, compared to today's songs that just go on and on over a loop. Plus your voice is super cool! :tu:
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