KVR Audio

Ixox · Post by **Ixox** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:01 am

Every body seems so excited by goup buys, i'm wondering if that will not make normal prices look expensive....
And if people will buy less normal priced plugs...

Just wondering....

experimental.crow · Post by **experimental.crow** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:06 am

Ixox wrote:Every body seems so excited by goup buys, i'm wondering if that will not make ixox prices look expensive....
And if people will buy less ixox priced plugs...

Just wondering....

Spe3D · Post by **Spe3D** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:07 am

I voted yes! as in a way it can devalue something if not done correct

It’s a quick hit solution - but has benifits to bring in new users.

The developers would be better off in the long term to introduce offers to existing users to buy the rest of their range – or team up with other developers to bring package deals.

– sort of mini developer mafia scheme

Best regards,

Spe3d

:O)

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:49 am

Being on the consumer side of the equation, it's not possible to make a really properly informed reply: only the retailers really know.

However, based on what I've read I vote "no."

If it hadn't been for the group buys on Cameleon and SS1/ST2LE, it's very unlikely I would have bought either of those products. [edit: this would have been a sad mistake, but that's life!] Judging from the replies to the threads on both group buys it's clear to me that I'm not unusual in this regard -- many others were convinced by the price and the added goodies.

Any promotion can backfire if done badly; that's not peculiar to group buys. In spite of any confusion both of these buys went over great, and put product in the paws of hundreds of KvRfolk and others.

If, for a living, I sold programs instead of writing them... well, I'd certainly consider one copy of software bought and installed at lowered price vastly more valuable than two potential full-price sales that might never materialize.

Meffy

Landphil · Post by **Landphil** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:58 am

I could use some enlightenment. . .

How do group buys work, exactly? This is something new to me!

TheWall · Post by **TheWall** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:12 pm

Meffy wrote: If it hadn't been for the group buys on Cameleon and SS1/ST2LE, it's very unlikely I would have bought either of those products. [edit: this would have been a sad mistake, but that's life!]

I'm very curious...but, why didn't you? Solving this puzzle may be the key to the prosperity of the whole VST community.

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:13 pm

Landphil wrote:I could use some enlightenment. . .

How do group buys work, exactly? This is something new to me!

A software maker announces a discount schedule and starts taking orders. As more people sign up, either agreeing informally to buy or paying up front, the price for the group drops by stages -- sometimes there are other incentives, such as additional goodies.

Camel Audio had a very successful group buy of Cameleon 5000, for which I'm very grateful. It would have been a shame not to own this gem! After that Squids held a group buy for a Sonic Synth 1 bundle that grew and grew, and spawned many spin-off deals. Another winner.

Here is a link to the thread on Squids' current group buy, a much smaller one for specialists -- Mellotron exotica.

Mellotron samples group buy

HTH!

Meffy

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:16 pm

TheWall wrote:
Meffy wrote: If it hadn't been for the group buys on Cameleon and SS1/ST2LE, it's very unlikely I would have bought either of those products. [edit: this would have been a sad mistake, but that's life!]
I'm very curious...but, why didn't you? Solving this puzzle may be the key to the prosperity of the whole VST community.

Fair question. Mostly because there are so many soft synths out there, I could never give them all a fair shake. Cameleon had been below my radar, so to speak... I was aware of it but didn't realize it would suit me so well.

Sonic Synth I had never paid any attention to. I'd wanted SampleTank for a long while but couldn't afford it. When that group buy came along I didn't notice for weeks that it would give me that long-desired upgrade path to SampleTank 2 XL! Once I did, and I was sure there was enough cash on hand, there was a *WHOOSH* sound as I leapt onto the bandwagon.

Meffy

[edit] Not only am I very pleased with ST2XL, I was pleasantly surprised by the usability of the Sonic Synth 1 sounds. Also nabbed a heap of other sample libraries, neatly provisioning my previously thin setup with meat-and-potatoes, bread-and-butter sounds. Now I just need a few schnitzel-and-sorbet or arugula-and-balsamic-parmigiano-reggiano samples, or maybe roast-beef-and-vanilla-wafers.

Kim Lajoie · Post by **Kim Lajoie** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:35 pm

I suppose it really depends on how the Group Buy is done.

When I think it'll be good:
When the group buy is done as a promotion. It's a great way to get an entry-level product to lots of people fast. It can also generate lots of buzz (word of mouth promotion, discussion) and brand awareness. Providing the group buy product isn't sold at a financial loss, and there are "higher-level" products to upgrade to, a group buy has potential for great things. I imagine it'll be a good kick to Sonic Reality because most of their business comes from repeat customers, and the group buy just boosted their customer base.

When I think it'll be bad:
When group buys are done so often (and on similar products) that the group-buy price becomes the "normal" accepted price, and people will go for group buys as an alternative to buying at full price. This can be a fatal spiral if not managed well - company gets low sales, so hosts a group buy to boost sales. Sales are boosted for the duration of the group buy, but drop sharply afterwards. Sales are low, so another group buy happens. This can seriously f**k up a company's finances, because the existing price was probably based on a Return-On-Investment calculation, and now all that is useless because nobody's buying it at the projected price - the entire target audience is now paying much less.

So, I think the important key for companies to consider is that group buys should work well as a promotion, but not as a sales-boosting strategy.

Forever,

Kim.

Landphil · Post by **Landphil** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:37 pm

Thanks for the info and link, Meffy!

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:44 pm

Jeez wrote:I suppose it really depends on how the Group Buy is done.

(snippotronic)

Jes jes! Business sense must be the guide, much as I might like cheap goods.

A lean and hungry developer might write darned good code, but a starving one probably won't. ;-)

[edit] Landphil, de nada. Tornado Alley, eh? Take care, y'hear?

Meffy

[another edit, oy veh] Under some special circumstances group buys can make sense, too. Clearance sales, for instance.

The SS1 buy began as a way to blow out old stock of a product that was being discontinued -- clear the warehouse at a bargain price. Eventually it morphed into something bigger, but it seems to have emptied the shelves pretty effectively too!

Ixox · Post by **Ixox** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:19 pm

Thanks for replying every body, many interesting thoughts...

Meffy wrote:However, based on what I've read I vote "no."
If it hadn't been for the group buys on Cameleon and SS1/ST2LE, it's very unlikely I would have bought either of those products.

Would you have bought normaly priced products instead ?
To my opinion the point is here.
Will people keep their money waiting for goup buy ?

kpr · Post by **kpr** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:24 pm

Group buy is an old marketing tool since Sears and Neckermann (Germany) catalog times. A whole bunch of housewifes is ordering the clothes for the whole family and is getting a cool group price. This is a visible reason for the lower price and no customer is expecting that this would touch the regular retail price if ordering just one 501.

But a special offer without any clear reason seems suspect instead and kills the regular retail price of the concerned product forever.

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:24 pm

Buying is about 'value'. If I NEED the plugin for whatever personal reasons I may have, and I find the price to be reasonable, I buy it, group buy or not.

If I find I only 'kinda' want it at X dollars, but the price drops down to X-50 dollars, the 'kinda want' can change.

It's all about value thresholds. The 'excitement' of a group buy though helps to motivate sales too.

Devon

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:02 pm

Ixox wrote:
Would you have bought normaly priced products instead ?
To my opinion the point is here.

Hm... That's one side of the coin. I would probably have bought some other product at regular price instead. But not Cameleon.

Not right away. However -- the group buy got my attention. If I hadn't bought Cameleon then, I would have wanted it. I mean: WANTED it. ;-) You know how that goes... it grows and grows until your credit card gets too hot to touch...

How much that urge grows depends on the product. Cameleon is a super synth, and the SS1/ST2LE bundles are very powerful too. They appeal to lots of buyers in all kinds of music.

I think a group buy can have effects even after it's over, bringing in customers who wanted the special deal but couldn't buy at the time. Probably not many, but in time they could add up.

Meffy

KVR Audio

Can group buy kill normal buy ?

Can group buy kill normal buy ?