Hello,
I'm a new member although I've been visiting off and on for a good while. To make a short story long, I messed around in Ableton back in Live 3. Went back to guitar/bass, but disabled vet with an old Navy injury to one shoulder and now a new injury/surgery to fingers on my opposite hand left me with no comfortable way to play longer than a few minutes. So I'm back on this side of things. I went with Ableton Live 10 Suite for familiarity and an Akai Force because I'm also a field service engineer and can take it with me on the road. For keyboard controllers I have a Launchkey 25 MkII and a Casio WK-6600. Now the questions...
I keep thinking I want to enter the walled garden of Native Instruments. Lots of specific presets. Lots of specific Kontakt instruments. There is some appeal there. On the flip side, it is the walled garden approach and it isn't cheap to just jump in. Should I look into Komplete as I have been or would I be better served to just get the free players and maybe full Kontakt, Massive, etc. eventually? It doesn't seem like they are regarded as the absolute best in any one arena and for the money spent on Komplete you can get an awful lot of competing products. If I get it, I'm trying to go the older Ultimate/update path or possibly Komplete 12/upgrade although it isn't as cost effective.
I plan to get a different controller. The 25 is just too small to do a lot of actual playing on and the 61 has minimal integration and is a little longer than I'd like. A 49 is my ideal target. The Launchkey MkIII is a target for the integration. Not sure if I would really need the extras with the SL. The downsides are that the software is fairly uninspiring as I already have Live and most of the extras from having the 25MkII. Also already have fairly decent integration with the Force for controls. The other target is the Kontrol MkII. This would get me in the garden with Select and also have good integration on the NI side with not so hot Live integration that could still be more or less covered with the Force. The dark horse is the Arturia Keylab. I'm not opposed to adding a fader type control as well in any case. Can't really side by side as most stores are still iffy about touchy feely visits and none I've found have two of the offerings, much less all three.
TL;DR...
Should I consider getting into the NI ecostystem or am I fine staying away?
If I do, should I look into the Kontrol for integration there and count on the Force for Ableton integration?
Any experience with the key beds on the Launchkey MkIII, Kontrol MkII, or Keylab offerings? I don't mind synth vs semi-weighted vs weighted, but inconsistencies in action or aftertouch are maddening.
Hopefully didn't put everyone to sleep or post in the wrong spot or commit any other peccadillo. Look forward to any responses.
Thanks,
James
Intro and a couple controller questions
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thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240 - KVRAF
- 37262 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from Scottish Borders
Have you considered a second hand ReMote SL49? The integration with Live is excellent and the keybed has a nice feel. Another option could be PUSH2. I've never jumped into the NI ecosystem altho' I do have a few free effects and an AK1 audio interface. I don't feel like I'm missing out.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 10 posts since 28 Aug, 2020 from Galveston, TX
Thanks for the response! I forgot about the ReMote line. They were a bit out of my price range back in the day. I'll keep them in mind. For some reason there is a pretty weak market in my area for controllers and, really, instruments in general. So many options online now though if shipping doesn't price it out.
Appreciate the comment on the NI ecosystem as well. I actually do somewhat feel like I'm missing out, but I think it's quite likely a case where I feel that way now, but if I jump in I will realize I really wasn't missing much. Think this is probably what I have to decide on first. If I don't decide to jump in, then the Kontrol would be off the table.
Appreciate the comment on the NI ecosystem as well. I actually do somewhat feel like I'm missing out, but I think it's quite likely a case where I feel that way now, but if I jump in I will realize I really wasn't missing much. Think this is probably what I have to decide on first. If I don't decide to jump in, then the Kontrol would be off the table.
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Winstontaneous Winstontaneous https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=98336
- KVRAF
- 2593 posts since 15 Feb, 2006 from Another Green World
All the best on recovery from your injuries!
I have Ableton Live 10 Suite + Push 2 plus NI Komplete Ultimate 12. If you love Ableton there's nothing you'll find with better integration than the Push 2. It's not perfect and the phrase "game-changer" is way overused, but it's the most significant tool I've found for making the DAW a musical instrument in itself. Of course, the Push 2 isn't designed to integrate with other DAWs (other than Bitwig having a decent Push 2 script), but I like the fact that it lets me choose keyboard controllers based on factors other than Live control.
I bought into Komplete at maybe version 9 or 10. If you are thinking of getting either Kontakt or Reaktor plus at least one other NI instrument it's likely cheaper to go the Komplete route in the long run. There are some phenomenally good effects plugins within Ultimate including the Softube RC24 and RC48 vintage Lexicon reverb tributes, Replika XT delay and Supercharger XT compression/saturation, Raum reverb, the Drive and Modulation effects suites, and the SSL-inspired "Solid" EQ, channel compressor/gate/expander, and Bus compressor. I've installed all these and use them regularly, while I've uninstalled hundreds of GB of Kontakt libraries.
NI is in a transitional phase - they took on outside investor $$ a few years back and seem to be in a bit of a crisis. They're now a slow-moving Goliath instead of a nimble upstart David - they really botched the Massive X rollout; they have years of technical debt around their internal UI frameworks; and seem to pretty much have abandoned FM8, Absynth, Guitar Rig and the other non-Reaktor/Kontakt/Maschine plugins that put them on the map.
I have Ableton Live 10 Suite + Push 2 plus NI Komplete Ultimate 12. If you love Ableton there's nothing you'll find with better integration than the Push 2. It's not perfect and the phrase "game-changer" is way overused, but it's the most significant tool I've found for making the DAW a musical instrument in itself. Of course, the Push 2 isn't designed to integrate with other DAWs (other than Bitwig having a decent Push 2 script), but I like the fact that it lets me choose keyboard controllers based on factors other than Live control.
I bought into Komplete at maybe version 9 or 10. If you are thinking of getting either Kontakt or Reaktor plus at least one other NI instrument it's likely cheaper to go the Komplete route in the long run. There are some phenomenally good effects plugins within Ultimate including the Softube RC24 and RC48 vintage Lexicon reverb tributes, Replika XT delay and Supercharger XT compression/saturation, Raum reverb, the Drive and Modulation effects suites, and the SSL-inspired "Solid" EQ, channel compressor/gate/expander, and Bus compressor. I've installed all these and use them regularly, while I've uninstalled hundreds of GB of Kontakt libraries.
NI is in a transitional phase - they took on outside investor $$ a few years back and seem to be in a bit of a crisis. They're now a slow-moving Goliath instead of a nimble upstart David - they really botched the Massive X rollout; they have years of technical debt around their internal UI frameworks; and seem to pretty much have abandoned FM8, Absynth, Guitar Rig and the other non-Reaktor/Kontakt/Maschine plugins that put them on the map.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 10 posts since 28 Aug, 2020 from Galveston, TX
Kontakt is the main instrument I am considering. There are still a pretty large amount of instruments that require the full version of it. Then that leads to maybe Massive or Reaktor as well. Then that leads to some of the other pieces and libraries seem pretty decent so might as well catch them all. I've used Guitar Rig and Traktor some in the past and their languishing relative to competition probably plays some part in my having a hard time jumping straight in. The update/upgrade path with reduced prices is still somewhat appealing, but buying new is probably not. For a good while they were the thing, but I couldn't really justify the price of entry as I was more on the old analog instrument path. Now that I can justify it again, I just can't decide if I should. Seems like they have been passed in almost every arena and are just really good or less options in most. I'm also slowly wrapping my head around Max for Live and what it offers and that is another wrinkle.
Thanks for the input! I have looked for a cheaper Push or Push 2 locally without software and if one shows up I may bite. Have considered adding it to the Force and maybe a Launchpad to just move most of my keyboarding to pads and just rolling with the 25 I have. I'm decently comfortable with music theory and play multiple instruments, but keyboards/pianos never really clicked very easily for whatever reason. If it ends up like most of these things do for me I'll have about 10 controllers sitting around before I find the setup I roll with...
Thanks for the input! I have looked for a cheaper Push or Push 2 locally without software and if one shows up I may bite. Have considered adding it to the Force and maybe a Launchpad to just move most of my keyboarding to pads and just rolling with the 25 I have. I'm decently comfortable with music theory and play multiple instruments, but keyboards/pianos never really clicked very easily for whatever reason. If it ends up like most of these things do for me I'll have about 10 controllers sitting around before I find the setup I roll with...
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- KVRist
- 37 posts since 25 Jun, 2020
I'm using maschine and a komplete keyboard and couldn't be happier. Had a lot of bad experiences with novation impulse and this combination really changed my workflow for the better.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 10 posts since 28 Aug, 2020 from Galveston, TX
I didn't get a ton of time with it before I got shipped out of town for work, but I'm digging the Launchkey and Force combo so far. Always had pretty good luck with Novation controllers. Just have Live 10 Suite now so a 6th copy of Live Lite wasn't exceptionally appealing.
Still eyeballing the Maschines and Kontrol keyboards to get a foot in the NI ecosystem and a used software-stripped Push if I find one cheap enough. I like different equipment for different flows depending on what aspects I'm working on and it's fun to plug in a different piece of kit and get an entirely new bolt of inspiration.
Still eyeballing the Maschines and Kontrol keyboards to get a foot in the NI ecosystem and a used software-stripped Push if I find one cheap enough. I like different equipment for different flows depending on what aspects I'm working on and it's fun to plug in a different piece of kit and get an entirely new bolt of inspiration.