NI launching 'stand alone hardware' Maschine + (leak)

[BONES]

Yeah, that's just swapping the second click for a different action. In Orion you left-click to add a note and right-click to delete. If you right-click and drag you can bulk erase but I think you need to hold down CTRL or ALT or something to paint notes in. You can also press CTRL+R to auto-create a random musical pattern (always created in a key, usually C), which is great when you want to demo an instrument. That feature alone makes Orion the first thing I think of after I've installed a new plugin or demo. Of course, I could easily create a template project to do something similar in other hosts but why would I when Orion makes it so easy? The habit of 20 years is also very hard to break.

[machinesworking]

Yeah, that's just swapping the second click for a different action. In Orion you left-click to add a note and right-click to delete. If you right-click and drag you can bulk erase but I think you need to hold down CTRL or ALT or something to paint notes in. You can also press CTRL+R to auto-create a random musical pattern (always created in a key, usually C), which is great when you want to demo an instrument. That feature alone makes Orion the first thing I think of after I've installed a new plugin or demo. Of course, I could easily create a template project to do something similar in other hosts but why would I when Orion makes it so easy? The habit of 20 years is also very hard to break.

I know you probably have an even more viscerral reaction to Reapers UX ridiculousness than I do, I can't help but think though if you could get over it, and spend the hours in the trenches making it replicate Orion it might just work for you. Hard to say, I found the MIDI editor to be too far gone to modify in a way I liked anyway, that and I absolutely hate the selection in the arrangement, but it is by far the most customizable DAW out there, it's just that the starting point is such a clusterfuck.

[antic604]

Yeah, that's just swapping the second click for a different action. In Orion you left-click to add a note and right-click to delete. If you right-click and drag you can bulk erase but I think you need to hold down CTRL or ALT or something to paint notes in. You can also press CTRL+R to auto-create a random musical pattern (always created in a key, usually C), which is great when you want to demo an instrument. That feature alone makes Orion the first thing I think of after I've installed a new plugin or demo. Of course, I could easily create a template project to do something similar in other hosts but why would I when Orion makes it so easy? The habit of 20 years is also very hard to break.

You only think Orion is so great precisely because of "habit of 20 years", because otherwise right-click to erase notes or having to hold Ctrl to paint notes seem ridiculous

Hope you'll make it work, eventually

[DrGonzo]

You only think Orion is so great precisely because of "habit of 20 years"

Yep, routine is everything.

/C

[BONES]

I know you probably have an even more viscerral reaction to Reapers UX ridiculousness than I do, I can't help but think though if you could get over it, and spend the hours in the trenches making it replicate Orion it might just work for you.

My issue with Reaper is that they add every stupid feature every idiot asks for. One of the things I really liked about Orion was that Rich largely ignored user requests because he had such a strong vision of his own as to what Orion should be so it always changed in ways that made it better.

You only think Orion is so great precisely because of "habit of 20 years", because otherwise right-click to erase notes or having to hold Ctrl to paint notes seem ridiculous

Provably wrong. Fewer actions to complete a task is always preferable, always better. Being able to make a 64 note pattern in literally one second is not something you can do in any other piano roll that I have seen.

[machinesworking]

My issue with Reaper is that they add every stupid feature every idiot asks for. One of the things I really liked about Orion was that Rich largely ignored user requests because he had such a strong vision of his own as to what Orion should be so it always changed in ways that made it better.

That's kinda my point though, you can strip out Reaper of everything you don't want, clear all menus even. You can completely change how the mouse works. Once you get a stripped down version you just save the preferences and you're done. You could rebuild Orion in Reaper. The issue is of course spending the days it would take you to do this. Plus a few things about it you can't change.

Mostly the only reason I don't use Reaper is because Clips and Articulation mapping have been very badly done with scripts by end users, and have IMO zero chance of ever being done by the developer. So the stupid features this idiot wants are done amateurishly.

[antic604]

You only think Orion is so great precisely because of "habit of 20 years", because otherwise right-click to erase notes or having to hold Ctrl to paint notes seem ridiculous

Provably wrong. Fewer actions to complete a task is always preferable, always better. Being able to make a 64 note pattern in literally one second is not something you can do in any other piano roll that I have seen.

But that's just it. I don't see how it's more actions. For example Bitwig paints a new note the length of the last one, but more often than not I find it annoying and I end up having to shorten or lengthen the new one(s).

No DAW can read your mind and adjust the tools in anticipation of your needs. It's important that it has the tools accessible in a reasonable way and the rest is just a matter of getting used to and developing habits.

[tapper mike]

Can we have it all?

Probably not.

About Daws
AB Live. been there done that forever and... It seems that they don't want to fix bugs so they introduce new features for you to correct them afterwards as opposed to having the program work right the first time.

Bitwig - Great for MPE crappy ui.

Others - About six years ago I went through the long process of finding the right (or at least the closest too daw that would work for me. The winner was... Mixcraft. I'd give each daw it's full trial as my only daw for that month and run it through it's paces. Watched videos, tried to recreate what I saw. Drilled down hard to see where they would fail and.. wrote notes of pluses and minuses. Mixcraft won and it's gotten better. 8 months of testing various daws that either I hadn't tried in years or I never tried. Money wasn't the object, satisfaction was.



Ignite- Great idea on paper but it never came to fruition.

-Dawless midi
The best live performance dawless daw I've ever had was... Emu Xl-7 Command Station.
Granted I needed an external midi controller (mostly my ztar)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6-8PXgwvw4
Grid, step and live recording/looping was faster, easier and glitch free. Granted. It's rompler based.

-Minimalism
When I want the ultimate in minimal gear I pick up my guitar and play fingerstyle guitar. While I'm no Jake Reichbart I get around pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hby_uO9xOb8

I tried to go straight itb with Korg Krome as a workstation but it's just not happening. Though I do love playing around with various combi's and practicing/developing linnstrument ideas as it's not guitar nor is it keys and while many borrowed ideas can be transcribed from other instruments it's important to respect the Linnstrument as it's own unique instrument and explore the pathways.


Linnstrument-
Yep huge fan though I rarely mpe on it. I agree that do to it's low threshold/action it can work against one for percussive type performances. Usually I relegate Drums and aggressive bass to my Launchpad

-Compartmentalization
While I'm fine texting on my phone I hate it for casual web surfing, forums fb et all. I'm thinking of limiting "web time" to my chromebook. I purchased it mostly for my travels and barely touch it now. Preferring

-Gearslutz
Just because it's an old forum with lots of people doesn't mean it's the best place to get trusted information from. If anything it's only the best place to get railroaded for not complying with hive mentality. KVR is a better place to gather and share information. Even if we disagree we keep civility to the conversation.

[vurt]

. Even if we disagree we keep civility to the conversation.

you new here?

[revvy]

At least on GS the M+ thread actually discusses the topic in hand rather than endless discusson of SW DAWs like this one. Much better reading over there about HW.

[BONES]

For example Bitwig paints a new note the length of the last one, but more often than not I find it annoying and I end up having to shorten or lengthen the new one(s).

Then you probably aren't doing very rhythmical music but I would say that I want the next note to be the same length as the last one more than 90% of the time. When I want different lengths it is usually longer notes, leads and pads, but when it's lots of short notes, I want them the same length almost always.

No DAW can read your mind and adjust the tools in anticipation of your needs. It's important that it has the tools accessible in a reasonable way and the rest is just a matter of getting used to and developing habits.

No DAW has to, I just need to find one that works in the most efficient way for me and finding something even half as good as Orion's piano roll is pretty much impossible. Double-clicking to enter a note is not "reasonable", neither is having to use both hands to do it. Of course, there are compensations - being able to use "D" to quickly copy a note or phrase is very handy and the way patterns work in the arrangement is really, really good - but then there are other shortcomings as well, like the fact that when you have nothing selected in Orion's piano roll, it assumes you want to act on everything, so you never have to press CTRL+A before you transpose or do anything like that. In other hosts' piano rolls, if you don't have anything selected, nothing happens.

It's all swings and roundabouts and each of us, individually, has to decide which set of compromises are easiest to live with. At the moment, the host with the fewest stability issues is the one that's going to win the day for me. Sadly, I've already had a crash in Studio One, when I tried to swap one instrument for another while it was playing. For all its issues, Orion never crashes on me when I am using it, all the freezes and crashes happen when I'm loading projects. Again, Studio One has compensations here, too, in that it loads projects noticeably faster than either Orion or Cubase. So much faster, in fact, that I might not even need to bother with the Show Page stuff. It would be interesting to see how quickly Maschine+ can load projects between songs. It's hard to imagine it has the speed of a proper computer.

[DrGonzo]

Slightly OT but not really. NI support is truly god-awful.

I wrote them asking if the M+ had a fan. No answers apart from a mail saying they are waiting for me to send the results of a system diagnostics on my end. They need to know my computer config to answer if the M+ has a fan...

As the cherry on the cream, I bought a mk3 a couple of weeks back. All worked except the included USB cable. I sent them a video showing how it didn't work and... no replies.

Looks like they cut down hard on support.

[antic604]

For example Bitwig paints a new note the length of the last one, but more often than not I find it annoying and I end up having to shorten or lengthen the new one(s).

Then you probably aren't doing very rhythmical music but I would say that I want the next note to be the same length as the last one more than 90% of the time. When I want different lengths it is usually longer notes, leads and pads, but when it's lots of short notes, I want them the same length almost always.

Check link in my signature. My music might not be good, but it's definitely rhythmic

[vurt]

At least on GS the M+ thread actually discusses the topic in hand rather than endless discusson of SW DAWs like this one. Much better reading over there about HW.

i think the m+ should be discussed over in bones pigments thread.

[BONES]

Check link in my signature. My music might not be good, but it's definitely rhythmic

The first three tracks are positively bristling with 1/16th and 1/8th note runs, you'd be doing 100 notes the same length for every two that are different lengths.