Have Modern VST Instruments Replaced Your Hardware Synths ?

[zerocrossing]

ATC-X. It’s an analog monosynth with Model D osc clones (2) and a quartet of classic analog filter clones (Model D, SEM, 303 and ARP) You’d think that Diva could cover it, but you’d be wrong, and Diva sounds puny and dull when trying to do the cross mod and filter FM things the ATC-X does, plus the gent’s at Studio Electronics were nice enough to throw in a third EG, which I’ve been begging Urs to add on for years. Super useful.

You've mentioned that synth a few times. I am very curious. Could you post a few examples of the sound you are talking about? I am curious how well I might match it in Diva or similar. I keep hearing things like this but yes, nobody posts anything to actually back up what they are saying. Not saying I don't believe you, or that you are wrong, I am just selfish and want to see for myself

Easy enough to find..

https://youtu.be/sNLL9VYjHMA

https://youtu.be/HwHKcvd_8vw

https://youtu.be/J_65MN_VFHs

https://youtu.be/fZDWml_ortg

https://youtu.be/fhfNKU7u8tU

https://youtu.be/MovG3zsLCbw

Funny, not a single person posts an example that can come close to these.

[melomood]

I didn't have any to replace. I only got one like 10 years after I contracted vst's

[AnX]

I couldn't find anyone willing to pay actual money for it, even with the strap-on kit.

must..... resist......

[BONES]

C'mon, I put it out there for you.

Funny, not a single person posts an example that can come close to these.

Like what? The first two demos sound completely generic to me, things I could easily do with Uno or any VSTi. The third one sounds like it's being played through a busted speaker. Again, hardly a stretch for even a basic VSTi. The fourth one also sounds like there is something wrong in the signal path in places - a weird, horrible distortion - and the rest, again, sounds anodyne, like it could be anything. The 303 filter one has a couple of nice sounds, though, but still nothing mind-blowingly amazing. The last one is a return to ordinariness. Not what I was expecting at all.

[Cro-magnon]

This whole debate brings into focus the different reasons that people own synths, both hardware and software.

Some, like myself, are on an endless quest to find the perfect elusive sound. I do play my keyboards, but rarely, if ever, get around to actually making music. I guess I am a synth enthusiast who just likes messing with synths for the sake of it. But I will get around to finishing that album one day - promise.

Others are real music producers whose primary aim is to make music. They tend to have a prolific musical output and push their stuff out there for appraisal and acceptance.

They could use any old instruments at hand if they were competent to play them. Any old synth - guitar - acoustic instrument would do, but modern computers just make the whole process of home music making a doddle, and so VSTs do the job nicely - thanks.

So that's it.

In my opinion, its not so much about " hardware versus software", but "Synth enthusiasts versus music producers".

Sure you are right,I don't know any professional working with hardware.
Guitar plugins are a bad joke in my opinion,far,far from the subtle nuances of a real guitarist.No comparison.For this kind of 'emulation',the time consumed in programming the plugin surpasses definetly playing the 'real' instrument.I don't see any benefit to use these plugins,unless you don't know how to play the real thing.

[Cro-magnon]

C'mon, I put it out there for you.

Funny, not a single person posts an example that can come close to these.

Like what? The first two demos sound completely generic to me, things I could easily do with Uno or any VSTi. The third one sounds like it's being played through a busted speaker. Again, hardly a stretch for even a basic VSTi. The fourth one also sounds like there is something wrong in the signal path in places - a weird, horrible distortion - and the rest, again, sounds anodyne, like it could be anything. The 303 filter one has a couple of nice sounds, though, but still nothing mind-blowingly amazing. The last one is a return to ordinariness. Not what I was expecting at all.

The easy answer,risk-free.Thanks for your honestly,again.

[Cro-magnon]

Diva or UNO sounds like an Omega8,now.HaHa,you made my day!

[BONES]

If that's the best Omega 8 can do, then abso-fuckin'-lutely! 8 x $200 seems like a much better deal than 1 x $5500 if that's all you're getting for your cash.

[ReleaseCandidate]

About hardware: as soon as you have to argue with the sound of the hardware, you've already lost. If it isn't about the playability and feel of the hardware, you don't need it.
For a long time the guitar amp sims and non-tube amps didn't feel like real tube amps (but there where and are also tube amps that felt compressed like transistors, Engls for example), they didn't respond to the changes of your playing volume with changes in distortion. But nobody you would také serious argued about the sound .

[Amram]

Can micromonsta 2 import wavetables/multi samples?

[Bulbizarre]

About hardware: as soon as you have to argue with the sound of the hardware, you've already lost. If it isn't about the playability and feel of the hardware, you don't need it.
For a long time the guitar amp sims and non-tube amps didn't feel like real tube amps (but there where and are also tube amps that felt compressed like transistors, Engls for example), they didn't respond to the changes of your playing volume with changes in distortion. But nobody you would také serious argued about the sound .

I guess you never tried an OB6 or ACT-X
Basic analog sounds and designs are well emulated but as soon as you want that deeply saturated organic lows and HQ shimmery highs, and creamy mids that merge with lows and highs as one block, with no weird resonance that need endless dynamic EQ, even Repro doesn't completely gets there. I was listening to Moog One demos the other day, I will not buy one because the price is crazy, but still, I can't get that pad sound from Diva in divine mode, there's no context, and no processing can fill the gap. I like how the guy from Sonicstate put it in words, he says it sounds like there are effects on, but there are actually none. It's just the raw sound of the analog circuit. I also get that impression from my OB-6. There is a gap between high quality and musical design of interwinded components of an analog circuit and our current consumer computer capabilities.

[ReleaseCandidate]

About hardware: as soon as you have to argue with the sound of the hardware, you've already lost. If it isn't about the playability and feel of the hardware, you don't need it.
For a long time the guitar amp sims and non-tube amps didn't feel like real tube amps (but there where and are also tube amps that felt compressed like transistors, Engls for example), they didn't respond to the changes of your playing volume with changes in distortion. But nobody you would také serious argued about the sound .

I guess you never tried an OB6 or ACT-X
Basic analog sounds and designs are well emulated but as soon as you want that [...]

That's what I'm talking about. If you want _exactly_ that sound, I'm not taking you seriously. You _want_ to use the hardware and that's perfectly fine and you don't need to justify yourself. Just don't try to find a rational argument for doing so.

So:
"I like using hardware"' - cool, more power to you!
"You can't get that exact sound with software!" - why the f&%"§$ would that nuances matter when making music and not trying to prove some totally irrelevant point for the sake of argumentation instead of standing proud of your personal feelings?

[chk071]

About hardware: as soon as you have to argue with the sound of the hardware, you've already lost. If it isn't about the playability and feel of the hardware, you don't need it.
For a long time the guitar amp sims and non-tube amps didn't feel like real tube amps (but there where and are also tube amps that felt compressed like transistors, Engls for example), they didn't respond to the changes of your playing volume with changes in distortion. But nobody you would také serious argued about the sound .

I guess you never tried an OB6 or ACT-X
Basic analog sounds and designs are well emulated but as soon as you want that [...]

That's what I'm talking about. If you want _exactly_ that sound, I'm not taking you seriously. You _want_ to use the hardware and that's perfectly fine and you don't need to justify yourself. Just don't try to find a rational argument for doing so.

Hehe, I'm afraid that that is always what such discussions are about.

Anyway, the discussion is pretty pointless. I'd guess that at least 70% of electronic music is made with software these days. If you want to see the rational side.

[jdoo]

Hard not to imagine a better way to kick off 2021, than a juicy hardware v. software / ITB v. OTB thread. Like a moth drawn to flame... I'll bite... especially since my favorite kit, the OB-6 has been tossed on the fire.

For me.. (and let's be honest with ourselves here - this is all subjective).. for me - I had chased the OB sound for years with software and hardware. Never achieving perfection - but certainly close enough for a mix, close enough for just jammin. Until I got my hands (and ears) on an OB-6 a few years ago. Almost immediately, it had that 'last 10%' that I had been chasing - from a personal sound chasing perspective. I've had a few years with it - and it hasn't ever disappointed. I was able to re-engineer prior songs, replacing the soft-synths I had been using, with the OB. From a price / performance perspective - there is no compare. ITB wins. I can get even closer to getting that 'last 10%' with the new stuff that is out. Will I chuck my hardware/OTB gear? Not a chance. Too much fun, finding and creating timbres with the flexibility of purpose-built synth bits. The Sequential synth components are built to work together, and provide headroom in a lot of cases, that I have to work for - with software emulations. Worse - I have the means, the space, and the absolute joy these days - of having a good hardware/OTB setup. That does not mean I don't use ITB synths and effects.. I do. I also integrate IOS synths. All this -- 'for me'.

So peace out my fellow musicians and hobbyists. We're not talking world peace, or saving democracy, or dealing with a global pandemic. Live with what you have, or strive for something different. Don't assume that what works for you, makes sense for anyone else, or feel like you have to convince someone differently. Don't worry... be happy...

Joe (now where's that vote-down button)

[pdxindy]

About hardware: as soon as you have to argue with the sound of the hardware, you've already lost. If it isn't about the playability and feel of the hardware, you don't need it.
For a long time the guitar amp sims and non-tube amps didn't feel like real tube amps (but there where and are also tube amps that felt compressed like transistors, Engls for example), they didn't respond to the changes of your playing volume with changes in distortion. But nobody you would také serious argued about the sound .

I guess you never tried an OB6 or ACT-X
Basic analog sounds and designs are well emulated but as soon as you want that deeply saturated organic lows and HQ shimmery highs, and creamy mids that merge with lows and highs as one block, with no weird resonance that need endless dynamic EQ, even Repro doesn't completely gets there. I was listening to Moog One demos the other day, I will not buy one because the price is crazy, but still, I can't get that pad sound from Diva in divine mode, there's no context, and no processing can fill the gap. I like how the guy from Sonicstate put it in words, he says it sounds like there are effects on, but there are actually none. It's just the raw sound of the analog circuit. I also get that impression from my OB-6. There is a gap between high quality and musical design of interwinded components of an analog circuit and our current consumer computer capabilities.

I had a 16 voice Moog One... When I played it side by side with RePro, I could tell the Moog One is an analog synth and RePro isn't. The thing is, I liked the sound and playability of RePro better. I didn't love the sound of the Moog One. I didn't like its gain staging and the filters are too tame for my taste. I spent nearly a month digging into it and then returned the Moog One.

I immediately loved the sound of the Moog Matriarch and it's a keeper for me. Analog still has sonic characteristics that digital hasn't fully emulated. But that doesn't mean I like all analog synths or that some VST's don't satisfy me more.

I have a Black Corporation Xerxes... gorgeous sounding analog synth. There is a lovely aliveness to it. I also have the Voltage Research Laboratory by Pittsburg Modular. Awesome and unique analog modular synth.

I hear characteristics on both of those that are hard or not possible to replicate in software. But then there are characteristics in various software synths that no analog can replicate. Be careful about fetishizing analog.

I currently have 8 different analog synths (2-3 on the way out) and I would give all 8 of them up before I would give up Bazille... Bazille is my favorite synth, hardware or software. It just does it for me.