Waves V12 is here, now with resizable GUIs

[drsyncenstein]

I think earlier in this thread i said reasonable things about Waves and where they differ compared to other companies. So i won't repeat that here.

As for expecting Waves to spend the whole year bug fixing and coding for around two hundred plus plugins for free (sorry no free updates for life) is not a working business model. Not only are some people dissatisfied with a purchase for around $29 for something other companies sell for upwards of a hundred. They are also upset that the rest of the updates won't be free, forever.

Which leads into the fact that some people feel the need to keep everything updated to the latest version, no matter what. The fact of the matter is, Waves plugins are designed to work side by side each other, from version to version. Most of the updates and upgrades are minor, unless something becomes appealing like resizable GUIs. Then all the sudden it's Waves fault because your WUP ran out.

Well, if a company has a catalog of hundreds plugins and sells those, then they get paid for each license and thereby get the money to maintain them. The amount of plug-ins can not be the excuse not to maintain.
Other companies prove that it's possible.
No one said they expect updates for free, it's just that the things people consider standard these days are presented by Waves as great updates, that turn out less great and that you need to pay for. And what you need to pay is a lot if you bought it for 29.99.
And the plugin industry has changed, their model is fine if you make decent money with their plugins or need a helpdesk when you run into trouble.
But these days they sell millions to hobbiests, they expect other things from a plugin company.

[LeVzi]

One thing is for sure, after having a few in date plugins goto V12, and using the sizable GUIs, its not something im willing to pay for ever, as it's so badly done.

[Burillo]

i'm OK with WUP, i'm just not OK with outrageous pricing on WUP that is tied to "retail" price of the plugin, a price which literally no one pays any more. it's often cheaper to buy things second time than pay WUP. i would have no problem with throwing e.g. $5 their way every time the new version comes out, but currently, i own maybe ten plugins of theirs, and i have to pay $200+ to upgrade them. no thanks.

[v1o]

Waves user and I've never paid for WUP. It's not something that bothers me. Maybe if I was mainly a Mac user and needed their plugins to work on the very latest version of MacOS. But many people spend money on annual DAW upgrades anyway.

[Burillo]

oh don't get me wrong, i'm a Windows user too, and i have never paid for WUP. it's just that if WUP price was more reasonable, i would have, simply because of the convenience of not having to deal with multiple installers.

[simon.a.billington]

displays are rated in PPI (pixels per inch) but in essence it's DPI yes.
For rasterized images, there's only @2x and normal image embedded in the code.
Generally, if you wan't it resizable AND sharp on a retina display, the @2x images should be sharp at 200% so default 100% scale is like having a @4x image.

If you don't care about sharpness above 100%, using @2x image for 100% scale is fine, and everything below will be sharp.

There's no sizes in between that i saw on macOS. There are more sizes for iOS (@3x as well i think), but nothing between normal and @2x - that scaling has to be done on the fly.

Yeah I think that is because iOS screens can have a higher “PPI” than Mac monitors. The issue there being manufacturing. It is really hard to create a flawless high density screen at 27” than it is for much smaller units. It’s the imperfections that were the reasons that iMac displays were limited to 144ppi.

That was “then”, though. I’ll be interested in finding whether that has been improved upon yet.

[simon.a.billington]

oh don't get me wrong, i'm a Windows user too, and i have never paid for WUP. it's just that if WUP price was more reasonable, i would have, simply because of the convenience of not having to deal with multiple installers.

Well it only works out to $10 to $30 per plugin, or thereabouts. It caps at $240 too. That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

If it were really about the money there would be no cap, or at the least, it would be much higher. It’s just inconvenient. Like having to call the plumber because the toilet isn’t working, or paying for new tyres because the once’s you currently have, don’t have any tread left. Nothing about maintenance is fun or convenient.

[Ploki]

Yeah I think that is because iOS screens can have a higher “PPI” than Mac monitors. The issue there being manufacturing. It is really hard to create a flawless high density screen at 27” than it is for much smaller units. It’s the imperfections that were the reasons that iMac displays were limited to 144ppi.

That was “then”, though. I’ll be interested in finding whether that has been improved upon yet.

The @3x were created because i think iPhone Plus had 400ppi.
iMacs are now 218ppi, and macbooks are in the ball park.
iPhones are 326ppi for non-pro and older models, and 450ppi (actual 324ppi due to pentile display arrangement) for Amoled models.
I have the LG Ultrafine 4K 21.5" (4096x2304) which uses the same panel as iMac and is also 218ppi.
iMac 5K @27" is also about 220ppi, and LG UltraFine 5K thunderbolt screen uses the same panel and are 218ppi, so is the 32" 6K Pro XDR display.

fwiw, 218ppi at usual distances from display is effectively "retina"

LG UltraFine 4K 23.8" (new model 3820x2160) has lower density than previous model.

[Burillo]

oh don't get me wrong, i'm a Windows user too, and i have never paid for WUP. it's just that if WUP price was more reasonable, i would have, simply because of the convenience of not having to deal with multiple installers.

Well it only works out to $10 to $30 per plugin, or thereabouts. It caps at $240 too. That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

If it were really about the money there would be no cap, or at the least, it would be much higher. It’s just inconvenient. Like having to call the plumber because the toilet isn’t working, or paying for new tyres because the once’s you currently have, don’t have any tread left. Nothing about maintenance is fun or convenient.

paying $240 for plugins i already own is a little bit too much just to get them under a single installer (because really, unless you're a Mac user, there's literally no benefit to WUP). also, $30 WUP for a plugin that costs $29 on sale is really stretching it. you're basically paying to re-buy the plugin.

[Cancel Culture Club]

oh don't get me wrong, i'm a Windows user too, and i have never paid for WUP. it's just that if WUP price was more reasonable, i would have, simply because of the convenience of not having to deal with multiple installers.

Well it only works out to $10 to $30 per plugin, or thereabouts. It caps at $240 too. That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

If it were really about the money there would be no cap, or at the least, it would be much higher. It’s just inconvenient. Like having to call the plumber because the toilet isn’t working, or paying for new tyres because the once’s you currently have, don’t have any tread left. Nothing about maintenance is fun or convenient.

paying $240 for plugins i already own is a little bit too much just to get them under a single installer (because really, unless you're a Mac user, there's literally no benefit to WUP). also, $30 WUP for a plugin that costs $29 on sale is really stretching it. you're basically paying to re-buy the plugin.

Let's not forget that WUP started a long time ago when there weren't so many bedroom producers. It was catering towards maintenance of larger commercial studios and teaching institutions, that had tons of plugins and could afford the coverage, which probably made a lot of sense back then.

In today's world, WUP isn't as vital as it once was, since they've introduced the upgraded bundle path.

This doesn't cure the individual that must have the most current version number on every plugin, but it's a very cost effective solution if you're planning to keep using their plugins.

It's a total different story if you shuffle through plugins like changing clothes, and like to wait every year or so to dump a few plugins to scratch the itch of GAS, then WUP could be your enemy.

I prefer buying plugins that I'll continue to use... That's why demoing and reading the company's fine print is a requirement in today's industry, it's not something you do if you feel like it, otherwise you end up finding out too late.

[The Noodlist]

Well it only works out to $10 to $30 per plugin, or thereabouts. It caps at $240 too. That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

It also can exceed this cap if you have earlier versions like V9.

[simon.a.billington]

Well it only works out to $10 to $30 per plugin, or thereabouts. It caps at $240 too. That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

It also can exceed this cap if you have earlier versions like V9.

Well that is true, but its not a huge leap in price. It's not that you have to pay for multiple versions. It seems it only cost a small fraction more, still making it quite viable.

[Orbit-50]

Solved happily...

[imrae]

Waves apologists: "you don't have to buy WUP every year"

Also Waves apologists: "WUP is capped at $240 (assuming you buy it for every version update)"

Version updates: about 1/yr

[simon.a.billington]

Waves apologists: "you don't have to buy WUP every year"

Also Waves apologists: "WUP is capped at $240 (assuming you buy it for every version update)"

Version updates: about 1/yr

Every other dev apologists: But I'm willing to spend $150 per year on a single plugin update because it comes with something shiny.

Mind you... I'm also one of those people too.