Stikkers - Shining 106 (back to the eighties!)

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Dark Fiber
KVRist
44 posts since 18 Apr, 2019

Post Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:24 am

Made this track purely with LinnDrum and Cherry Audio's DCO-106.

Hope you like it :)

https://soundcloud.com/stikkers/shining-106

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ChameleonMusic
KVRian
628 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Post Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:06 am

Cherry Audio's DCO-106 - $25 well spent! Just been messing around with it over the last few days! Impressed so far.

It works well...Nice driving groove full of energy and the sounds are definitely 1980s!

Production is generally effective, but I felt that it was quite tiring on the ears...a little bit over compressed with the drums maybe a little bit too upfront?

Enjoyed it.
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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Frantz
KVRAF
5576 posts since 18 Jul, 2008 from New York

Post Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:20 pm

Excellent! I enjoyed that 80s flashback. :)

I agree with Mark, the mix seems slightly over compressed but is otherwise very good.

Dark Fiber
KVRist
44 posts since 18 Apr, 2019

Post Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:36 pm

Thanks for your replies!

I'll have to look into this overcompressed sound, especially finding out where it is coming from.
In the mix i've only used sidechain compression to improve the attack/punch of the kick and snare.
On the master bus i've done some "glue compression". 2:1 ratio.
Maybe it's the clipping and limiting to achieve -9 LUFS (short term on the loudest sections).

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ChameleonMusic
KVRian
628 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Post Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:07 pm

Dark Fiber wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:36 pm
Thanks for your replies!

I'll have to look into this overcompressed sound, especially finding out where it is coming from.
In the mix i've only used sidechain compression to improve the attack/punch of the kick and snare.
On the master bus i've done some "glue compression". 2:1 ratio.
Maybe it's the clipping and limiting to achieve -9 LUFS (short term on the loudest sections).
Side-chain compression on Bass / Kick:

This can cause such issues...especially over pumping etc

This style - bass is main focus...

You may have to make compromises with the tone of the kick as the more important bass part is taking up a lot of the low end...

EQ on Kick: Maybe cut the low end and add more ‘click’ etc to help it cut through + leave room for the bass.

Side chain compression can then work at a lower level alongside the EQ to improve the balance between the kick and bass even further if necessary...aim for subtle compression with 1-3 dB of gain reduction, and a fast attack and release.

A touch of reverb on the bass can just push it a little bit back in the mix as well.

Sometimes, I even pan kick and bass very, very slightly L and R to separate them.

On the master bus I've done some "glue compression"

Compression on the stereo outs is NOT always necessary - use your ears.

If used (as with mastering EQ) LESS is MORE...

A high threshold and low ratio will yield the kind of transparency you want during mastering...typically ratios of 1.25:1 or 1.5:1 ... 2:1 at a push) in order to achieve just 1 or 2 dB of gain reduction. The idea is to feel rather than hear the compression being applied.

NOT all compressors can handle a full mix...some are more designed for individual tracks. Compressors designed to cope with mixes are often called buss compressors since they are usually inserted across a stereo buss, as opposed to a single channel.

An attack time that is too short can be damaging to the music, since it will cause the compressor to grab and squash the transients... start with an attack time in the 30–40 ms range and be prepared to dial it up as far as 100 ms....depending on your release settings!

The release time is a little trickier since the goal is to get the action of the compressor to blend in with the musicality of the track. Too short of a release time will result in audible pumping; too long and the compressor will rarely if ever return to its zero state, resulting in nearly constant gain reduction.

Generally make sure you are using “softer” knee settings as they are less aggressive.

Maybe it's the clipping and limiting to achieve -9 LUFS

That's a lot! I rarely go beyond 4 – 7 dB of gain reduction via a master limiter.

SORRY - got carried away...I taught this shit for 32 years! :)
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

Dark Fiber
KVRist
44 posts since 18 Apr, 2019

Post Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:20 am

ChameleonMusic wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:07 pm
Maybe it's the clipping and limiting to achieve -9 LUFS
That's a lot! I rarely go beyond 4 – 7 dB of gain reduction via a master limiter.
Actually, i did 6 db of gain reduction with 2 clippers and a limiter.

Last three plugins in the mastering chain:
- StandardCLIP: -4 db gain reduction, 128x oversampling
- StandardCLIP: -1.6 db gain reduction, 128x oversampling
- Ozone 9 Maximizer: true peak limiting @ -0.3 db

I'll post a version with less heavy glue compression this weekend.
Used NI Solid Bus Comp for this: 2:1 ratio, 4 db GR, 30 ms attack, 0,2 s release.
Checked yesterday and I can go to: 1.5:1 ratio, 2 db GR, same attack, maybe 0,4 s release.

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ChameleonMusic
KVRian
628 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Post Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:10 am

Dark Fiber wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:20 am
ChameleonMusic wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:07 pm
Maybe it's the clipping and limiting to achieve -9 LUFS
That's a lot! I rarely go beyond 4 – 7 dB of gain reduction via a master limiter.
Actually, i did 6 db of gain reduction with 2 clippers and a limiter.

Last three plugins in the mastering chain:
- StandardCLIP: -4 db gain reduction, 128x oversampling
- StandardCLIP: -1.6 db gain reduction, 128x oversampling
- Ozone 9 Maximizer: true peak limiting @ -0.3 db

I'll post a version with less heavy glue compression this weekend.
Used NI Solid Bus Comp for this: 2:1 ratio, 4 db GR, 30 ms attack, 0,2 s release.
Checked yesterday and I can go to: 1.5:1 ratio, 2 db GR, same attack, maybe 0,4 s release.
Clipping over the master outs - Yuk! Not for me, I'm afraid!

Yeah, I know a lot of dance music styles do it just to trim the peaks 1-2dB before final limiting, but even with 128x oversampling to compensate I'm always wary of the level of aliasing it can create.

I own Ozone 9 and simply use that + it's various individual modules to master...nothing else.

I know StandardClip has a good rep (and I admit I haven't used it ever), but I'm NOT a fan of the process over the stereo outs at all.
Ozone 9 Maximizer: true peak limiting @ -0.3 db
Rather than set the ceiling of these at 0 or -0.1 dBFS as many presets seem to do (you've gone for _0.3), it can be a good idea to set them with a ceiling of -1.0dBFS, or even slightly lower.

Why?

This allows some headroom for the digital filtering process involved in any subsequent MP3 conversion, and reconstruction of the waveform by consumer D-A converters without clipping.

It's usually OK to trim 3-4 dB off the signal peaks, but use the meters as a guide only: let your ears decide what's right.

Too much compression and/or limiting can make a mix sound really confused, a little bit aggressive / hard to listen to — no point in making your mix sound loud if the listener simply turns it down because it sounds unpleasant!

NOTE: Yours is NOT unpleasant, by the way...just a little over done in my opinion...and it is only opinion...others may differ!
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

Dark Fiber
KVRist
44 posts since 18 Apr, 2019

Post Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:41 pm

Lowered the amount of master bus compression:
- 1.5:1 ratio, 2 db GR, 30 ms attack, maybe 0,2 s release

It's a subtle difference, however the kick is less snappy now (which is a good thing).

https://soundcloud.com/stikkers/shining ... KwxX4Dfx3H

If it still sounds overcompressed I'll have to go back and decrease the amount of sidechain compression in the mix.

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ChameleonMusic
KVRian
628 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Post Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:17 pm

kick sounds more part of the mix now, I think.
If it still sounds overcompressed I'll have to go back and decrease the amount of sidechain compression in the mix.
I wouldn't worry about it too much...it doesn't sound bad at all... far from it and I'm a fussy bastard where compression is concerned! :borg:

Just keep it in mind with each mix that we all have a tendency towards too much loudness at times!
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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seismic1
KVRAF
9934 posts since 13 Mar, 2009 from UK

Post Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:54 pm

I preferred the 27-11-2020 master. It's less "in your face" and has a "smoother" sound.

Good work :)

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ChameleonMusic
KVRian
628 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Post Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:28 am

One more little thing:
Ozone 9 Maximizer: true peak limiting @ -0.3 db
I've had issues with the TRUE PEAK LIMITER in Ozone 9...i know they are there as a good safeguard, but on a couple of recent mixes, something was simply NOT quite right and when I turned OFF the blue TPL button everything suddenly sounded significantly improved!

Just saying in case it happens to you at all...haven't analysed it as yet..haven't had time...just trusted my ears!
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

Paladin on a Horse
Banned
83 posts since 7 Nov, 2020

Post Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:27 am

Yes, very much a blast from the 80s.

A good listen - sounded OK to me, but I am probably pretty much deaf to those higher frequencies anyway.
Just an old bloke who likes listening to a wide range of music. I also fart quite a lot!

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Bansaw
KVRian
1422 posts since 19 Aug, 2008

Post Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:58 pm

Good considering you limited yourself.
Would have liked to hear more depth and width.
Just that one synth by itself and probably not layered sounds a touch thin and one-dimensional.

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