Help!
That's what I need.
I make progressive trance, but I don't know how to get that kick and bass pounding deep enough.
I'm working with several Compressors/Limiters but I just can't get that kick sound loud without killing it.
Please help me out if you can.
Thanks in advance.
Mastering/maximizing the kick and bass?
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- KVRist
- 77 posts since 27 May, 2004
compress just the kick drum and bass (none of the other instruments) then compress the entire song. This might work
www.kolemcrae.co.nr - You can't spell creativity without Kole...Wait, yes you can.
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- KVRAF
- 3409 posts since 26 Mar, 2002 from london
I think it's all about the mix - separating everything else from the kick and bass. Try microTonic for kick drums.
Every day takes figuring out all over again how to f#ckin’ live.
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- KVRAF
- 4692 posts since 28 Jan, 2003 from In these very interwebs
Don't use compression or EQ.
Turn your speaker volume up.
Seriously.
If the kick and bass don't absolutely smoke, then you need to choose better samples, or reprogram your synths.
Seriously, once you start trying to fix things with compression or EQ, things just sound worse and worse. Stop, and fix the source.
Forever,
Kim.
Turn your speaker volume up.
Seriously.
If the kick and bass don't absolutely smoke, then you need to choose better samples, or reprogram your synths.
Seriously, once you start trying to fix things with compression or EQ, things just sound worse and worse. Stop, and fix the source.
Forever,
Kim.
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- KVRAF
- 1907 posts since 29 Oct, 2003
you could export kicktrack and just slightly (!!!) - just before pumping becomes audible - mix / sidechain it to complete mix (kick as key here) - this should pronounce kick and give your mix maybe a bit more *drive* as well as clarity of beat.
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- KVRAF
- 1718 posts since 3 Sep, 2003
Remember that punch is a dynamic thing and by compressing you are limiting the dynamics. You make it louder, sure, but you reduce the snappy, punchy aspect. Mastering is about (among other things) increasing the over all volume without harming the dynamics.
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- KVRist
- 292 posts since 25 Aug, 2004 from Essex, UK
I just make sure the kick drum and bass line are the loudest things in the song from the start.
Mix the other volumes accordingly.
I dont use compression.
Mix the other volumes accordingly.
I dont use compression.
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- Banned
- 12367 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
holy f**k!!!
two - now three people who aren't licking compression's nuts in one thread? is the day of reckoning upon us already?
:)
(okay, i don't produce a lot of house or anything)
two - now three people who aren't licking compression's nuts in one thread? is the day of reckoning upon us already?
:)
(okay, i don't produce a lot of house or anything)
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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- Banned
- 6127 posts since 1 Apr, 2004 from Et in Arcadia Ego
if your using samples, open them in an audio editor & chop the attack off the front end a bit.
If you're using an instrument like battery, you have the option of setting the start & end loop points from within Battery, which is better.
I prefer NO attack on a kick.
Also, just make sure your kick & basslines aren't peaking on symapthetic frequencies.
I'm not a big fan of compression either, aside from use on a rythm guitar track or maybe vocals. Transients are going to the wayside these days & I think music is suffering for it.
Just my opinion, though. Everyone has dfferent ways of doing it.
If you're using an instrument like battery, you have the option of setting the start & end loop points from within Battery, which is better.
I prefer NO attack on a kick.
Also, just make sure your kick & basslines aren't peaking on symapthetic frequencies.
I'm not a big fan of compression either, aside from use on a rythm guitar track or maybe vocals. Transients are going to the wayside these days & I think music is suffering for it.
Just my opinion, though. Everyone has dfferent ways of doing it.
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- KVRAF
- 8705 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
I'm not against compression at all; I use it alot, but not on kicks, and not much on basslines. As mentioned, the mixing and the sound source are far more important.
If you've never done it before, then it may sound opposite to what you want, but it helps to get rid of unwanted bass. Low cut things that you don't want bass in. Roll off some bass from either your kick or your bassline - one will then let the other sit in its own space. If you want a really low bassline, then you can patch the synth to cut out alot of anything over 150Hz; If you want a full bassline, then pick a kick that doesn't compete in the lower mids, and layer over another drum sound that emphasises the initial kick hit.
When you compress the f**k out of kicks, you also make the lower mids more powerful, and even the mids. Then you have real problems mixing over the top of it.
I remember someone who posted a tune in the cafe - got lots of negative feedback because he used this incredibly compressed drumloop which he had to mix way too high in the mix to achieve kick volume. That was purely because the loop was overcompressed, he had to do it to get a powerful kick. He remixed again and again, and every time the loop overpowered the music (which was pretty good). All you could hear was this thick flat line of a drumloop. Presumably he thought that to get the power out of the kick, he had to compress it more and more. Which just made the whole loop more and more oppressive. If he'd have separated out the kick from the loop, he would have found he actually didn't need to compress the kick at all.
The mixing and the picking of the right source sound means kicks and bass don't have to compete. One general rule I always abide by is...if I want a powerful kick, then I pick a not-so-powerful bassline. Listen to many techno type releases - the bassline isn't really a bassline as such, it's a lower mid sound.
And if I want a powerful bassline, then I use a smaller kick. Listen to decent dub tracks - the basses can be huge, but the kicks often don't even have any bass content below 100Hz or so. Or they just don't have a kick at all.
If you've never done it before, then it may sound opposite to what you want, but it helps to get rid of unwanted bass. Low cut things that you don't want bass in. Roll off some bass from either your kick or your bassline - one will then let the other sit in its own space. If you want a really low bassline, then you can patch the synth to cut out alot of anything over 150Hz; If you want a full bassline, then pick a kick that doesn't compete in the lower mids, and layer over another drum sound that emphasises the initial kick hit.
When you compress the f**k out of kicks, you also make the lower mids more powerful, and even the mids. Then you have real problems mixing over the top of it.
I remember someone who posted a tune in the cafe - got lots of negative feedback because he used this incredibly compressed drumloop which he had to mix way too high in the mix to achieve kick volume. That was purely because the loop was overcompressed, he had to do it to get a powerful kick. He remixed again and again, and every time the loop overpowered the music (which was pretty good). All you could hear was this thick flat line of a drumloop. Presumably he thought that to get the power out of the kick, he had to compress it more and more. Which just made the whole loop more and more oppressive. If he'd have separated out the kick from the loop, he would have found he actually didn't need to compress the kick at all.
The mixing and the picking of the right source sound means kicks and bass don't have to compete. One general rule I always abide by is...if I want a powerful kick, then I pick a not-so-powerful bassline. Listen to many techno type releases - the bassline isn't really a bassline as such, it's a lower mid sound.
And if I want a powerful bassline, then I use a smaller kick. Listen to decent dub tracks - the basses can be huge, but the kicks often don't even have any bass content below 100Hz or so. Or they just don't have a kick at all.
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- KVRAF
- 8705 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
And....... If bass is critical to your track, then don't do anything without listening on proper HiFi speakers that actually play the bass frequencies. Even if you've got the best of the best nearfield monitors, they won't play the important sub-bass frequencies. Most nearfileds only go down to 50Hz (some a touch higher, some a touch lower). But if you pick big kicks and basslines than transfer to a set of HiFi speakers, you'll most likely just hear a load of indistinct boomy mush at the bottom end that overpowers everything. Never ever mix bass when you can't hear it 
Which includes headphones too.
Which includes headphones too.
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neverwhere2012 neverwhere2012 https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=23348
- KVRist
- 420 posts since 30 Apr, 2004 from grand rapids, michigan
a lot of great ideas presented here... couple more for the heap.
double your kick drum to start with. find a good solid kick sound, then take any old 909 style analog kick that has a lot of deep bass in it and roll it off with a low pass filter down to around 40 or 50 Hz. the main kick you can roll off at 20 or 30 with a high pass filter.
i recently read a great article on the basics of EQ in tape op that really brought a lot of things back into perspective for me. the best part of the article, to me, was the description of 30 Hz, the description goes as such:
"30 Hz. we like to call this balls. need more weight in that kick drum? just turn up some balls."
albeit, you can't get too carried away and it doesn't always carry over to other systems, but it's something to remember. scooping midrange frequencies out of the kick drum helps it mesh well with bass too. from like, 500 Hz -800 Hz is fair game, and wherever you cut, boost the exact same center frequency on the bass. it may take radical cut/boost, or it may take a 1-1.5 dB, your ears will let you know. it's really all about finding points of "resonance" in each that sound good and bringing those out front.
though first and foremost, proper orchestration goes for more in the way of creating a killer mix than any amount of Eq, compression, volume/pan/whatever automation you can muster. i come close to really nice orchestration (or synthestration as a friend of mine put it once) every once in a while, and when i do, it's an absolutely beautiful thing because the song damn near mixes itself... but that's once in a great great while and everything in between is pulling my hair out not wanting to change any of the sounds i have even though they don't work together
so yea, lots of rambling out of me
... play with your samples first, then EQ. not so much compression unless you're capable of sidechaining the bass to the kick.
double your kick drum to start with. find a good solid kick sound, then take any old 909 style analog kick that has a lot of deep bass in it and roll it off with a low pass filter down to around 40 or 50 Hz. the main kick you can roll off at 20 or 30 with a high pass filter.
i recently read a great article on the basics of EQ in tape op that really brought a lot of things back into perspective for me. the best part of the article, to me, was the description of 30 Hz, the description goes as such:
"30 Hz. we like to call this balls. need more weight in that kick drum? just turn up some balls."
albeit, you can't get too carried away and it doesn't always carry over to other systems, but it's something to remember. scooping midrange frequencies out of the kick drum helps it mesh well with bass too. from like, 500 Hz -800 Hz is fair game, and wherever you cut, boost the exact same center frequency on the bass. it may take radical cut/boost, or it may take a 1-1.5 dB, your ears will let you know. it's really all about finding points of "resonance" in each that sound good and bringing those out front.
though first and foremost, proper orchestration goes for more in the way of creating a killer mix than any amount of Eq, compression, volume/pan/whatever automation you can muster. i come close to really nice orchestration (or synthestration as a friend of mine put it once) every once in a while, and when i do, it's an absolutely beautiful thing because the song damn near mixes itself... but that's once in a great great while and everything in between is pulling my hair out not wanting to change any of the sounds i have even though they don't work together
so yea, lots of rambling out of me
... play with your samples first, then EQ. not so much compression unless you're capable of sidechaining the bass to the kick.