Looking for open back headphones for mixing - 1000€ budget

[worldfever]

Hey!
I'm looking on your advice for headphones for mixing. Of course I use monitors as well, but I also want to have a pair of great reference headphones. So far I've used sennheiser HD650 and I like them alot, but maybe there is an option that is even more accurate, especially bass-wise.

my budget is about 1000€ - I dont mind buying used.

[lfm]

Are you having headphone amp for HD650, they really need that.
I use HD650 and Pro-Ject Headbox S, I think they were called.

I just found no regular phones out on any gear that is focused on something else works. Can work for phones at 60 ohm or so, but going up 150 ohm and up you start to loose stuff.

I find HD650 translate really well as phones goes, usually reverb depth and some panning going over to monitors that needs adjusting. Crosstalk with monitors change things quite a bit.

So pleased with Pro-ject that I bought another one for hifi amp as well.

[pdxindy]

I use the AKG K712's... love em. Fantastic sound and super comfortable.
My backup for a second opinion are the Beyerdynamic DT-990's - very happy with them too.

I use Focal monitors.

[3ee]

I was using HD-600 and DT-1990 before getting Focal Clear and Audeze LCD-X ... if you are lucky, you can find the last two new on special sales around 1000 Euro each like I did.

Get the Focal Clear for a more or less upgrade in every aspect to the 600 series and get the LCD-X for extra transient/speed/details

[worldfever]

Are you having headphone amp for HD650, they really need that.
I use HD650 and Pro-Ject Headbox S, I think they were called.

I just found no regular phones out on any gear that is focused on something else works. Can work for phones at 60 ohm or so, but going up 150 ohm and up you start to loose stuff.

I find HD650 translate really well as phones goes, usually reverb depth and some panning going over to monitors that needs adjusting. Crosstalk with monitors change things quite a bit.

So pleased with Pro-ject that I bought another one for hifi amp as well.

I dont have a headphone amp - just curious, why do the hd650 need that?

[lfm]

I dont have a headphone amp - just curious, why do the hd650 need that?

Some go by that volume is not enough, but that is only part of the story.
If driving amp for phones is not capable all over audible range you will have altered frequency response.

But note this problem comes with higher impedance 100+ ohm or so.

But impedance 250 ohm for HD650 is measured at 1 kHz, and to just make a point it might be 10 000 ohm at 10 kHz. I don't have the exakt ratio. It's a coil and it increase in impedance with frequency.

A normal output wattage to ears is 30 mW or so, 0.03 W.

So effect P=U*U/R, needs voltage square root of(P*R)=2.7V at 250 ohm and you see that to bring 30 mW at 10 000 ohm as well it will need voltage square root of 0.03 * 10 000 give 17.3V needed.

That is why Pro-Ject run with 18V power supply.

Volume is good enough, and so is frequency response.

But at 600 ohm as some phones are this is not good enough.

Check out specs of this amp from Lake People
https://www.headfonia.com/lake-people-g ... ful-world/

They cover a lot of ground
Max. output level: > 18.8 Veff in 600 ohms = 590 mW
> 13.8 Veff in 100 ohms = 1900 mW
> 10.7 Veff in 50 ohms = 2300 mW
> 7.8 Veff in 50 ohms = 1900 mW
> 3.7 Veff in 16 ohms = 410 mW

Most electronics run at 5V, 12V and such. I saw a demo of a new mixer from Korg in collaboration with Greg Mackie, Mackie mixers are famous. They call it HiVolt and raised from 15V to 16.5V operating voltage inside and they make a deal of that.

And coming to phones out, most electronics don't raise all voltage inside just for the sake of phones out.

Just check out if a new phone amp might do what you miss in the HD650 today.

[_leras]

Hey!
I'm looking on your advice for headphones for mixing. Of course I use monitors as well, but I also want to have a pair of great reference headphones. So far I've used sennheiser HD650 and I like them alot, but maybe there is an option that is even more accurate, especially bass-wise.

my budget is about 1000€ - I dont mind buying used.

I switched from HD650 to Beyerdynamic dt1990, and I really love them. For mixing I use a correction curve in Crave EQ, which is a cheap, accurate and amazingly clean EQ. I have found this to translate very well.

*the EQ for the most part take out a slight peak at around 8kHz, which adds a detail/sparkle when listening, which is fine, but maybe a bit too high for mixing accurately.

The 1990s are built really very well, and I expect them to pretty much last forever.

Oratory EQ Presets for headphones
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/com ... q_presets/

[worldfever]

any new suggestions? got a bit more budget now been still using the HD650

[andypryce]

https://www.audeze.com/products/lcd-x

[_leras]

any new suggestions? got a bit more budget now been still using the HD650

Still the dt 1990. Sound great. Very dynamic. Translate brilliantly.

Add a small eq correction and a waves nx room simulation like ocean way, and it's a great setup.

Btw, you can do those last two things with the hd650.

Hd650, for me, just seemed a bit too nice sounding, maybe more for listening than mixing.

[pdxindy]

any new suggestions? got a bit more budget now been still using the HD650

Whats wrong with the HD650's? Just keep using them. Get a second pair (something different) as a second point of view. Try the DT-990 as a backup. No need to spend so much money!

[m-ac]

any new suggestions? got a bit more budget now been still using the HD650

For mixing you really don't need anything more than the 650s. I know people with endless budgets and they choose to use the 600s or 650s every day over everything else. I was all ready myself to drop up to £3k on headphones for mixing and decided to go for the 650s too, and I'm glad I did.

To add to someone mentioning the 650s being too nice to mix on and preferring the DT1990s, I'm absolutely the opposite - the 1990s sound more like hifi with that pronounced treble boost. The 650s are more or less flat as a pancake and pretty damn 'boring' to listen to, but so neutral and not tiring even after 14 hours non-stop. Really light too, but you already know that.

[bmanic]

I think the only upgrade is learning your headphones and using software to correct them. Almost nothing beats the comfort of the HD600/650 so you can't really "upgrade" that, and comfort is nr 1.

As for mixing, more accurate bass in terms of reference mixing, I think nothing beats Slate VSX at the moment but those are not open back and the comfort is not on the same level as HD600/650 (although for my head shape and size it's close).

I terms of sonics, Audeze headphones are great but they weigh so much that I had to ditch mine (LCD-X, the first revision) as they gave me neck ache.

[Wriggle]

I would look at getting HD650s calibrated by Sonarworks. You could ask them if it is worth getting a headphone amp - but if so it would need to be calibrated with the cans. HD650s are the most expensive model Sonarworks recommends so I would imagine they don’t believe more expensive alternatives offer any real world improvements. I would ask them and be interested to hear which route you go down.

[_leras]

To add to someone mentioning the 650s being too nice to mix on and preferring the DT1990s, I'm absolutely the opposite - the 1990s sound more like hifi with that pronounced treble boost. The 650s are more or less flat as a pancake and pretty damn 'boring' to listen to, but so neutral and not tiring even after 14 hours non-stop. Really light too, but you already know that.

There is a peak at about 8k on the dt1990, adds a real sparkle to the sound, but easy to EQ out. I'm not sure I'd call them hifi, I'd say they are very dynamic and very balanced.

I use crave EQ with an oratory eq curve I got from the web and have saved as a preset. My mixes have translated really well with them. I also use waves nx for room simulation, which is also great.

The 650, for me, never translated that well. I'd do a mixes that would sound way off on the speakers (focal). They also felt quite lush and forgiving. I often wondered if the 600 would have suited me better, but I never tried them.
edit: I should try the EQ curve for the 650 and compare again.

Oh and the dt 1990 feel much more sturdy with a metal enclosure for the ear piece, compared to the plastic 650. DT are also very comfortable, maybe not quite as much as the 650.