KVR Audio

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:46 pm

I see all the Lexicon, Eventide, EMT, etc, emulated, but no one’s ever done an Ensoniq DP emulation. Why not? I’d definitely buy a plugin that did the DP/4 justice.

Halonmusic · Post by **Halonmusic** » Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:36 am

Good question.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:48 am

Why not indeed.

Why there have only been two Ensoniq emulations in all these years is a mystery. They made some excellent and unique gear.

I'd definitely be interested in a DP/4 emulation.

https://www.vintagedigital.com.au/enson ... processor/

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:26 am

Teksonik wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:48 am Why not indeed.

Why there have only been two Ensoniq emulations in all these years is a mystery. They made some excellent and unique gear.

I'd definitely be interested in a DP/4 emulation.

https://www.vintagedigital.com.au/enson ... processor/

It’s so odd. There’s generally a pretty decent fan base of all their stuff and rarely is any of it spoken of in bad terms (except for maybe the Fizmo, for... reasons...) and yet here we are still with basically nothing except a free 32 bit SQ80 emulation.

dubguy99 · Post by **dubguy99** » Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:38 pm

Its why obvious why. Because Ensoniq is defunct / in limbo, the source code is not available. Reverse engineeting is HARD. You basically are faced with a black box, analogue circuits are a cakewalk in comparison.

The only two developers in the world that have reverse engineered high complexity DSP are Relab and UAD. Both are focussed on high end units mostly because these are multi-year projects and the demand for something like a DP/4 is relatively small compared to the highend stuff.

You would basically need a craty enthusiast (who, with the skills required, could work on any number of way more profitable projects) to make it happen. So its not totally out of the question but very unlikely.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:17 pm

dubguy99 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:38 pm demand for something like a DP/4 is relatively small compared to the highend stuff.

So you've done the market research to determine demand or are you just speculating ?

Some people may not know about the Ensoniq stuff but all the gear I've owned from them was awesome especially back in the day.

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~dattorro/DP4.htm

Spirit2020 · Post by **Spirit2020** » Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:22 pm

audiouser720 · Post by **audiouser720** » Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:04 pm

zerocrossing wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:46 pm I see all the Lexicon, Eventide, EMT, etc, emulated, but no one’s ever done an Ensoniq DP emulation. Why not? I’d definitely buy a plugin that did the DP/4 justice.

Good question. I’m however more concerned about not having a H3000 plugin that does the real thing justice. Closest I have found in sound quality is Exponential Audio Excalibur but 1) It is not based on Eventide but very capable 2) Is now abandonware.

EDIT: Another one that people often over look at (because it’s NI and is Reaktor) is Molekular. It’s a proper secret gem and can do some of the DP/4 or H3000 madness too.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:23 pm

dubguy99 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:38 pm Its why obvious why. Because Ensoniq is defunct / in limbo, the source code is not available. Reverse engineeting is HARD. You basically are faced with a black box, analogue circuits are a cakewalk in comparison.

The only two developers in the world that have reverse engineered high complexity DSP are Relab and UAD. Both are focussed on high end units mostly because these are multi-year projects and the demand for something like a DP/4 is relatively small compared to the highend stuff.

You would basically need a craty enthusiast (who, with the skills required, could work on any number of way more profitable projects) to make it happen. So its not totally out of the question but very unlikely.

Yes, this pretty much nails it. Lexicon and Eventide aren't reverse engineering their units. Ensoniq has a following, but they never played in the big leagues.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:32 pm

audiouser720 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:04 pm
zerocrossing wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:46 pm I see all the Lexicon, Eventide, EMT, etc, emulated, but no one’s ever done an Ensoniq DP emulation. Why not? I’d definitely buy a plugin that did the DP/4 justice.
Good question. I’m however more concerned about not having a H3000 plugin that does the real thing justice. Closest I have found in sound quality is Exponential Audio Excalibur but 1) It is not based on Eventide but very capable 2) Is now abandonware.

EDIT: Another one that people often over look at (because it’s NI and is Reaktor) is Molekular. It’s a proper secret gem and can do some of the DP/4 or H3000 madness too.

I think if some enthusiast had a manual, a unit, and some time that they could do some sort of first approximation. It's just that this is never enough for the purists.

audiouser720 · Post by **audiouser720** » Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:44 pm

ghettosynth wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:32 pm
audiouser720 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:04 pm
zerocrossing wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:46 pm I see all the Lexicon, Eventide, EMT, etc, emulated, but no one’s ever done an Ensoniq DP emulation. Why not? I’d definitely buy a plugin that did the DP/4 justice.
Good question. I’m however more concerned about not having a H3000 plugin that does the real thing justice. Closest I have found in sound quality is Exponential Audio Excalibur but 1) It is not based on Eventide but very capable 2) Is now abandonware.

EDIT: Another one that people often over look at (because it’s NI and is Reaktor) is Molekular. It’s a proper secret gem and can do some of the DP/4 or H3000 madness too.
I think if some enthusiast had a manual, a unit, and some time that they could do some sort of first approximation. It's just that this is never enough for the purists.

Yes, I kinda agree. I often find that it’s not about the modulation capabilities (as anything a DP/4 can do can be replicated with your DAW’s effects) but it’s more the overall sonics of the hardware what the plugins somehow can’t deliver.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:34 pm

ghettosynth wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:23 pm Yes, this pretty much nails it. Lexicon and Eventide aren't reverse engineering their units. Ensoniq has a following, but they never played in the big leagues.

When I worked in a music store in Las Vegas in the late 1980's we sold as much if not more Ensoniq gear as any other companies.

So yea they were in the big leagues back in the day. It's just that some newcomers are not aware of the quality and significance of Ensoniq gear.

The Mirage was a huge milestone as it brought affordable sampling to the masses.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:31 pm

Teksonik wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:34 pm
ghettosynth wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:23 pm Yes, this pretty much nails it. Lexicon and Eventide aren't reverse engineering their units. Ensoniq has a following, but they never played in the big leagues.
When I worked in a music store in Las Vegas in the late 1980's we sold as much if not more Ensoniq gear as any other companies.

So yea they were in the big leagues back in the day. It's just that some newcomers are not aware of the quality and significance of Ensoniq gear.

The Mirage was a huge milestone as it brought affordable sampling to the masses.

That isn't what I meant. You sold more Ensoniq to people with home/project studios and bands. You did not sell Ensoniq to the likes of Abbey Roads. You never sold an Ensoniq effects box that had a five figure retail price.

Ensoniq was never in the big leagues. They were always viewed as prosumer gear. The reason that people buy emulations of the likes of EMT, Lexicon, and Eventide, is because they can talk about how many gold records that everyone loves that those boxes were used on.

The EMT250 retailed for $20k in the 70s. That's $50k+ in 90s money. The DP/4 was excellent, but at $1750, it wasn't in the big leagues when it was new. That was project studio money when people were spending twice that to record 8 tracks onto a VHS tape.

I owned a Mirage, in fact, I've owned three or four of them over the years and I still own a broken one. Big studios didn't need an 8-bit sampler that was affordable, they were using the CMI or EMU.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:50 pm

There's a DP-4 on my desk. A lot of our stuff is heavily inspired by it.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:21 pm

Urs wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:50 pm There's a DP-4 on my desk. A lot of our stuff is heavily inspired by it.

Indeed, they were pretty cool and they're super popular today. They are increasingly in demand and one of the few prosumer boxes of the era that still fetches a relatively high price.

I think that it's unfortunate that Ensoniq went out of business. They were definitely creative. That said, I also remember buying gear in the 90s and actively choosing not to buy Ensoniq because of some of their technical choices. The thing is, you couldn't tell an Ensoniq aficionado that these things were important, they were a bit too loyal for their own good. I specifically remember a good friend of mine, who owned a music store and loved Ensoniq, that I was choosing the K2K over the ASR because of flexibility in the synth engine. He spent too much time trying to convince me, without success, that a resonant filter in the effects engine was just as good as a resonant filter in the synth voice.

Ensoniq users were the 90s equivalent of the 90s mac user for synths. I think that they needed their own Steve Jobs.

Why no DP/4 emulation?