Mastering A<–>B

[eassae]

I decided to try having my tracks mastered by an engineer other than myself for my next album. I went with someone that has many, many years of experience in the genera that I produce. I started by sending one track as a test.

Which of the following do you prefer:

A or B

Feedback would be appreciated.

[jancivil]

B, by far
A is cluttered, claustro

[shawshawraw]

Hmm I appreciate both. A is louder.

I'd go with the one that sounds closer to your reference track.

[eassae]

B, by far
A is cluttered, claustro

Cool. Thanks for chiming in.

[eassae]

Hmm I appreciate both. A is louder.

I'd go with the one that sounds closer to your reference track.

Thanks for listening shawshawraw.

I tweaked the levels so the perceived loudness should be roughly equal now. I don't if the change makes any difference to you?

[jancivil]

Well, A was too fackin loud is one thing.
I probably don't get it, but both seem really over-mastered

B I can hear a lot more of what's in the track, there's more oxygen

[shawshawraw]

I tweaked the levels so the perceived loudness should be roughly equal now. I don't if the change makes any difference to you?

Thank you!! Thumbs up, that's super important.

I bet A is the professional work. The imaging is super stable. Stereo width and high end are better used. A more accessible or commercial sounding. Or speaking figuratively, I feel the drawing is framed.

B sounds a little dull on MacBook speakers, a little narrow on earbuds, a little confusing on phone speaker. On my KH80s I finally noticed the wide-panned elements - a subtle synth texture and strings (I think), and I feel too much is boxed around the phantom centre.

I think A is two hair better than B - a layman would perceive a subtle difference. And of course A is louder! But honestly, apart from those, I can groove with either.

[eassae]

Well,

I bet A is the professional work.

Thank you both for taking the time to comment, and for the feedback.

I asked some people outside the forum as well, and it seems like it's an even split.

A is actually my master coming in just above -14 Lufs with a good amount of dynamic range.

B is the professional master coming in at -8 Lufs(adjusted to match perceived loudness of A, which apparently I kept underestimating, but the meter in FabFilter ProL2 told me were equal).

I watched a video recently that demonstrated that songs with more dynamic range were perceived as louder when adjusting for loudness. This was pertaining to loudness wars and streaming platform limits.

B sounded a bit dull to me with less air and dimension in the mix. I felt I could hear the compression. But, I've been listening to the track so much I didn't know if I had any objectivity left.

Like I said, it's basically split down the middle as which is preferred. So I have no idea of how to proceed.

[eassae]

Arggghhh. This is driving me nuts.

Here's another section of the song, which makes me completely second guess my first impression. I guess hence the 50/50 split.

I think I'm just going to have to flip a coin

A2 vs. B2

[shawshawraw]

A is actually my master coming in just above -14 Lufs with a good amount of dynamic range.

Hey you have 'mixing ears'! The feeling of A really really sounds like the mix eng I started to work with.

re A2 vs B2: were they the same mix or did the eng do a stem master? Check the panning of the violin solo...

[eassae]

A is actually my master coming in just above -14 Lufs with a good amount of dynamic range.

Hey you have 'mixing ears'! The feeling of A really really sounds like the mix eng I started to work with.

re A2 vs B2: were they the same mix or did the eng do a stem master? Check the panning of the violin solo...

Thanks!

That's the weird thing right. They are the same mix. He didn't have stems, but the placement of the violin is left in A2 and central in B2 and much more forward. I like what he did here, but I can't figure out how he did it.

[eassae]

I think I figured out what happened with the violin. I had a limiter on the mix bus that left on but put to 0 gain when I exported the file for the engineer. It really messed with the phase in the violin for some reason.

[shawshawraw]

That's the weird thing right. They are the same mix. He didn't have stems, but the placement of the violin is left in A2 and central in B2 and much more forward. I like what he did here, but I can't figure out how he did it.

But that's a drastic one - the beginning of violin in A2 is about -35% left but in B2 it's like hard right... He's surely done magic if you're sure you gave him the same thing, but that's not what a mastering eng is supposed to do, though.

I think B2 sounds more evocative when elements pop up, but A2 is better balanced. I think the mastering eng's preference is to draw focus onto individual elements.

Ruling out loudness, I think the sonic difference is marginal, because you can do a really good job yourself. I envy that

[eassae]

That's the weird thing right. They are the same mix. He didn't have stems, but the placement of the violin is left in A2 and central in B2 and much more forward. I like what he did here, but I can't figure out how he did it.

But that's a drastic one - the beginning of violin in A2 is about -35% left but in B2 it's like hard right... He's surely done magic if you're sure you gave him the same thing, but that's not what a mastering eng is supposed to do, though.

I think B2 sounds more evocative when elements pop up, but A2 is better balanced. I think the mastering eng's preference is to draw focus onto individual elements.

Ruling out loudness, I think the sonic difference is marginal, because you can do a really good job yourself. I envy that

I don't know if you saw my comment above but I think the violin happened because there was a phase issue from modifying a limiter slightly on an export. I've never seen anything happen that severely, but…it's the only thing I can think of.

I really appreciate your comments on my mixing abilities because learning to mix has been a lot of trial and error for me over many years. I guess it is for everyone, but I never had any formal training, so I always felt insecure in my abilities. I actually started out life as an oil painter. I did a Lynda.com course by Bobby Owsinsky, but other than that it's just been plugging away. Anyway, thanks very much.

[shawshawraw]

I don't know if you saw my comment above but I think the violin happened because there was a phase issue from modifying a limiter slightly on an export. I've never seen anything happen that severely, but…it's the only thing I can think of.

Yes, I saw it, but I'm definitely having no idea about what phases do...

That means you have the talent (natural abilities) doing this!