Should TBProAudio "revive" CS-3301?

[antic604]

Following some discussion in other topic, I'm curious what the community's though is on TBProAudio shelving the CS-3301 channel strip. Here's the KvR product page:

https://www.kvraudio.com/product/cs-3301-by-tbproaudio




On one hand, you can say that 3301 has been made irrelevant by 5501v2 (https://www.kvraudio.com/product/cs-550 ... tbproaudio) which - on paper and in practice - is much more powerful and flexible. But, it being a channel strip, I always thought the benefit of using one is immediacy, fast & intuitive workflow and - surprisingly - limited options that force you to make decision quick & see what's what on 1st glance.

As a result, the CS-5501v2 is - for me - an antithesis of channel strip:

• you get double of everything (gate, compressor, EQ), which means you now have to switch between instances - or even modules, as compressor, gate & limiter are in the same part of the GUI - with a drop-down menus

• you can reorder the processing path but it's not drag & drop, but tedious drop-down menus again; even simple things like HPF/LPF slopes are now drop-down menus, instead of an icon that switches between 2 fixed options on a simple click

• due to its flexibility, you can apply filters to separately mid & side signals, EQs to left & right signals while compressor to stereo mix - all great, but can get very confusing after coming back to the mix few weeks later as it's per-module / instance

[Passing Bye]

Yeah, this one seems more inviting and to the point!

[Burillo]

nothing to do with the topic, but i just find this whole "limitations are liberating" thing odd, as whenever i bump against limitations of a channel strip, i don't "force myself to work within limitations", i replace it with something that matches my goals better. i don't understand the point of that. if there's something that needs to be done, i'm going to do it whether channel strip allows it or not. this is why i eventually stopped using channel strip plugins - because there's always that one little thing that i just can't do with them, and since channel strips have a defined signal flow that i might want to break or patch into with another plugin, it's much easier to just, you know, not use channel strips. at least for me.

[antic604]

nothing to do with the topic, but i just find this whole "limitations are liberating" thing odd, as whenever i bump against limitations of a channel strip, i don't "force myself to work within limitations", i replace it with something that matches my goals better...

1) Why don't you keep those thoughts to yourself, then? Or create a dedicated topic?

2) Obviously I'm not talking about embracing limitations that lead you to compromise on quality! But more often than not a range of slopes available for the filters, or minutae control over the shape of an EQ node, or compressor type don't matter in the bigger context. And definitely don't matter for others listening to - and hopefully enjoying - your music. Personally when I've infinite options, I tweak them infinitely because I don't often have a very precise idea of the sound I want, as I get inspired and influenced along the way, by the tweaks I make to particular track or other tracks.

So, please, let me have a plugin I want. You are free not to buy it

[boomt]

I am someone who bought CS-3301 a few months before they deprecated it. Little annoyed they did that and so I emailed to ask if they would do a discount to upgrade to CS-5501 and they would not.

[antic604]

I am someone who bought CS-3301 a few months before they deprecated it. Little annoyed they did that and so I emailed to ask if they would do a discount to upgrade to CS-5501 and they would not.

Yeah, I myself asked - yestarday - about buying a license for 3301 despite it being discontinued and instead they only said they'd have to move it to current framework. As if I ever asked about it...

Anyway, thinking about 5501v2, there's few "easy" fixes to make it awesome also from the workflow perspective:

• instead of drop-downs to switch between instances of modules, make tabs (so 1 click instead of 2 + moving of the mouse) and ideally add icons on those tabs indicating which signal is being processed (mid/side/left/right/stereo)

• make the GUI wider, to have all modules - compressor, gate, limiter - always visible, instead of them occupying the same space and having to be toggled through

• use drag & drop for changing the routing

[Rockatansky]

i just find this whole "limitations are liberating" thing odd

I call it the supermarket effect. You have all the options in the world, all of which stand between you and your goal. So you're feeling lazy and you'd go for some noodles with a pre-made sauce tonight. Spaghetti? Farfalle? Tagliatelle? Ramen? Udon? Soba? Egg? Wheat? Wholegrain? Shrimp? BBQ? Hot n spicy? Tuna? Curry? Pea and lentil? Beef? Cheese and onion? Sweet and sour? Chicken? Tomato? Holy shit. Having so many options can make it way too hard to even start and try to make up your mind. Having just two types of noodles and just two types of prepared sauces available means that not everyone's preference or lust or taste is met all the time, certainly. But it also means everyone immediately knows what the options are, and whether they are fitting for the situation or not. It doesn't take long to figure out if you can live with the limited offer, or if it's better to just pick something else right away. If you know that the low cut on channel strip #1 is set too high for a bass guitar and not particularly steep, and you know that channel strip #2 has a lower cutoff and a steeper curve, then it's easy to decide which channel strip to use when working on a bass guitar track. But if both channel strips do essentially the same (i.e. everything, as in fully sweepable cutoff and totally flexible steepness) - which one are you going to use, and why?

[Burillo]

which one are you going to use, and why?

at the end of the day, i'm heavily leaning towards a very utilitarian approach. so, honestly, i'd pick one that i feel like using right now (even if it's on the basis of "i like this shade of green better"), and move on. if the choice doesn't have any consequences i have to deal with, then there's not a choice to be made, you can pick any one of them and be just fine. since there's nothing identifiable to be gained from using one vs. another, then which plugin you pick becomes largely meaningless, and there shouldn't be room for second guessing. so, "which"? this one. "why"? just because.

...and to contribute something on topic, the existence of CS-5501 was always odd to me. they look almost identical to each other, so i feel like CS-5501 should at least have an upgrade path from CS-3301. i would've rather preferred if they were the same plugin, e.g. "lite" version and a "pro" version with more advanced functionality. in fact, i think this would've actually added value to both.

[antic604]

...and to contribute something on topic, the existence of CS-5501 was always odd to me. they look almost identical to each other, so i feel like CS-5501 should at least have an upgrade path from CS-3301. i would've rather preferred if they were the same plugin, e.g. "lite" version and a "pro" version with more advanced functionality. in fact, i think this would've actually added value to both.

I think they were meant to be that, as they were both being sold until (very) recently. Perhaps the pricing was wrong i.e. the difference was to low and most people would rather add EUR10-20 (I believe that was the difference) to get the "bigger" version. No wonder 3301 wasn't selling...

[rasmusklump]

nothing to do with the topic, but i just find this whole "limitations are liberating" thing odd, as whenever i bump against limitations of a channel strip, i don't "force myself to work within limitations", i replace it with something that matches my goals better...

1) Why don't you keep those thoughts to yourself, then? Or create a dedicated topic?

so only yes-sayers are allowed to answer ? Whats the point of this topic then ?

[antic604]

so only yes-sayers are allowed to answer ? Whats the point of this topic then ?

No, voting options for both yes & no are provided

But seriously, the point of this topic regards specific plugin(s). A broad, general discussion about reasons for existence of specialised vs. all-but-the-kitchen-sink plugins doesn't help. I laid out why I think 3301 is better - in terms of quick workflow - than 5501v2 in the OP and sure we can discuss that, but not why some people prefer to have limitations and other thrive without them

[Burillo]

so only yes-sayers are allowed to answer ? Whats the point of this topic then ?

my post was indeed woefully (and admittedly!) off topic, and i apologize to the thread starter. so, the OP's comment was more than valid. the question posed by the OP was "would you buy this or that", so it's already assuming that there is an interest to get one of them at the very least. responding with "i wouldn't buy either because channel strips suck" is not really addressing the question that was asked.

...and to contribute something on topic, the existence of CS-5501 was always odd to me. they look almost identical to each other, so i feel like CS-5501 should at least have an upgrade path from CS-3301. i would've rather preferred if they were the same plugin, e.g. "lite" version and a "pro" version with more advanced functionality. in fact, i think this would've actually added value to both.

I think they were meant to be that, as they were both being sold until (very) recently. Perhaps the pricing was wrong i.e. the difference was to low and most people would rather add EUR10-20 (I believe that was the difference) to get the "bigger" version. No wonder 3301 wasn't selling...

speaking for me personally, i just felt like they were just a little bit overpriced. but then i can say that about most TBProAudio plugins - the prices usually are 10-20 EUR more than i would've been comfortable with paying for their plugins. that's possibly another reason why the channel strip didn't sell that well, especially (as you point out) in light of availability of 5501.

(that's not to say that TBProAudio should reduce their prices - they're well within their rights to set whichever price they want! if anything, i think that them having a "not impulse buy but still affordable" price tag and no sales at all sets them apart from the competition)

[Passing Bye]

[martinjuenke]

This poll leaves me breathless, so exiting, such a burner!

[MogwaiBoy]

I am someone who bought CS-3301 a few months before they deprecated it. Little annoyed they did that and so I emailed to ask if they would do a discount to upgrade to CS-5501 and they would not.

Wow, that's....