Arturia V Collection 9. Predictions?
- KVRAF
- 5512 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
And here is what Arturia said about TAE in 2005.
TAE :: Oscillators
Better reproduction of analog oscillators
TAE oscillators are very similar to their analog counterparts for several important reasons.
One of the main reasons is that they are "free", i.e. they are not sampled or wavetable based - or generated from a 0-point when a note is played. Each waveform generated dynamically, allowing the waveform to be in constant adaptation regarding sampling "cutting" and quantization, avoiding one of the major "tell-tale" signs of digital waveform generation and provides a certain level of "liveness" found in the classic analog synthesizers of the past.
Standard digital synthesizers produce aliasing in high frequencies, and also when using Pulse Width Modulation or Frequency Modulation. TAE allows the production of oscillators that are totally aliasing-free in all contexts (PWM, FM,…), at no extra CPU cost.
Frequency spectrum of a typical software synthesizer
Frequency spectrum of a TAE oscillator
Also, all of our oscillators are highly optimized for the particular working frequency. That means that you can play with an instrument exactly as if you played a real analog synthesizer. Again, the waveforms are not presampled and or regenerated with digital perfection, allowing each note to have a life of its own.
In addition, original analog oscillators were unstable. Actually, their wave shape was always slightly different from one period to another. It is also true that due to analog hardware sensitivity, new period trigger times varied with the temperature and other environmental conditions.
TAE allows the simulation of the oscillator's instability, helping to create warmer and fatter sound.
Original analog oscillators used condensers' unloading to produce common wave shapes (saw tooth, triangle, square). This means that wave forms were slightly curved or distorted in other ways that are considered highly desirable in a musical context. TAE allows the reproduction of condenser's unload in order to give you the original analog sound.
Because TAE oscillators are "free" and "alive", when you play a simple chords with raw oscillators, you don't have a digital impression of "fog" or a "blocked" sound, but you have a pleasant feeling of transparency and clarity.
PWM
With TAE, you can even produce complex PWM sounds with unprecedented quality and, of course, free of any aliasing. It is true for all the our TAE waveforms (square, triangle, saw…). This produces sounds which are unique on the market, because PWM is very difficult to achive on certain waveforms like triangle or saw/ramp. We bring you new levels of reality in a virtual analog synthesizer, so that you can achieve new levels of creativity in your music.
TAE :: Oscillators
Better reproduction of analog oscillators
TAE oscillators are very similar to their analog counterparts for several important reasons.
One of the main reasons is that they are "free", i.e. they are not sampled or wavetable based - or generated from a 0-point when a note is played. Each waveform generated dynamically, allowing the waveform to be in constant adaptation regarding sampling "cutting" and quantization, avoiding one of the major "tell-tale" signs of digital waveform generation and provides a certain level of "liveness" found in the classic analog synthesizers of the past.
Standard digital synthesizers produce aliasing in high frequencies, and also when using Pulse Width Modulation or Frequency Modulation. TAE allows the production of oscillators that are totally aliasing-free in all contexts (PWM, FM,…), at no extra CPU cost.
Frequency spectrum of a typical software synthesizer
Frequency spectrum of a TAE oscillator
Also, all of our oscillators are highly optimized for the particular working frequency. That means that you can play with an instrument exactly as if you played a real analog synthesizer. Again, the waveforms are not presampled and or regenerated with digital perfection, allowing each note to have a life of its own.
In addition, original analog oscillators were unstable. Actually, their wave shape was always slightly different from one period to another. It is also true that due to analog hardware sensitivity, new period trigger times varied with the temperature and other environmental conditions.
TAE allows the simulation of the oscillator's instability, helping to create warmer and fatter sound.
Original analog oscillators used condensers' unloading to produce common wave shapes (saw tooth, triangle, square). This means that wave forms were slightly curved or distorted in other ways that are considered highly desirable in a musical context. TAE allows the reproduction of condenser's unload in order to give you the original analog sound.
Because TAE oscillators are "free" and "alive", when you play a simple chords with raw oscillators, you don't have a digital impression of "fog" or a "blocked" sound, but you have a pleasant feeling of transparency and clarity.
PWM
With TAE, you can even produce complex PWM sounds with unprecedented quality and, of course, free of any aliasing. It is true for all the our TAE waveforms (square, triangle, saw…). This produces sounds which are unique on the market, because PWM is very difficult to achive on certain waveforms like triangle or saw/ramp. We bring you new levels of reality in a virtual analog synthesizer, so that you can achieve new levels of creativity in your music.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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- Banned
- 410 posts since 5 Feb, 2012
Ah, so my memory has failed me. Arturia was not only claiming that TAE delivered aliasing free oscillators (a statement that was more or less true) but that it also emulated the instability of analog oscillators, the slight waveform distortion that occurs during "condenser unload", and the ability to produce complex PWM sounds.jamcat wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:29 pm And here is what Arturia said about TAE in 2005
TAE oscillators are very similar to their analog counterparts for several important reasons.
One of the main reasons is that they are "free", i.e. they are not sampled or wavetable based - or generated from a 0-point when a note is played. Each waveform generated dynamically, allowing the waveform to be in constant adaptation regarding sampling "cutting" and quantization, avoiding one of the major "tell-tale" signs of digital waveform generation and provides a certain level of "liveness" found in the classic analog synthesizers of the past.
Standard digital synthesizers produce aliasing in high frequencies, and also when using Pulse Width Modulation or Frequency Modulation. TAE allows the production of oscillators that are totally aliasing-free in all contexts (PWM, FM,…), at no extra CPU cost.
Also, all of our oscillators are highly optimized for the particular working frequency. That means that you can play with an instrument exactly as if you played a real analog synthesizer. Again, the waveforms are not presampled and or regenerated with digital perfection, allowing each note to have a life of its own.
In addition, original analog oscillators were unstable. Actually, their wave shape was always slightly different from one period to another. It is also true that due to analog hardware sensitivity, new period trigger times varied with the temperature and other environmental conditions.
TAE allows the simulation of the oscillator's instability, helping to create warmer and fatter sound.
Original analog oscillators used condensers' unloading to produce common wave shapes (saw tooth, triangle, square). This means that wave forms were slightly curved or distorted in other ways that are considered highly desirable in a musical context. TAE allows the reproduction of condenser's unload in order to give you the original analog sound.
Because TAE oscillators are "free" and "alive", when you play a simple chords with raw oscillators, you don't have a digital impression of "fog" or a "blocked" sound, but you have a pleasant feeling of transparency and clarity.
With TAE, you can even produce complex PWM sounds with unprecedented quality and, of course, free of any aliasing. It is true for all the our TAE waveforms (square, triangle, saw…). This produces sounds which are unique on the market, because PWM is very difficult to achive on certain waveforms like triangle or saw/ramp. We bring you new levels of reality in a virtual analog synthesizer, so that you can achieve new levels of creativity in your music.
This was all bullshit and hype. I actually played the original Arturia emulations for several hours. While the oscillators were clean, they were also totally cold and sterile. They had none of the instability or drift (or saturation) that characterizes the warmth of a real analog oscillator. Moreover, their filter models were weak and shrill (when the resonance was turned up) and completely inauthentic.
I remember playing with these earlier Arturia instruments and thinking, "Jesus, these are complete crap. I'll stick with my MKS-80, MKS-70, MKS-50, Matrix-1000, MicroWave I, MicroWave II XT, Nord Lead, Virus Kb, Atmosphere (the precursor to Omnisphere) and Trillian.
So while Arturia did actually deliver on one aspect of their TAE technology (aliasing free oscillators,) they utterly failed to live up to their other marketing claims, which was misleading at best.
Matrix-1000, MicroWave with Access programmer, MicroWave II, MKS-50 with MidiClub programmer, MKS-70, MKS-80 with Kiwi Patch Editor, Nord 2 Rack, Nord 3 Rack, Prophet REV2 module, Pulse 2, Shruthi, Virus TI
- KVRAF
- 5512 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
Well you've already been demonstrably wrong on every claim you've made so far, and have admitted to a failing memory.
So did you do any tests and take any measurements that revealed that Arturia's oscillators were not free-running, did not reproduce instability, and were distortion-free, even with soft-clipping enabled?
Please show your work, as your memory is unreliable.
So did you do any tests and take any measurements that revealed that Arturia's oscillators were not free-running, did not reproduce instability, and were distortion-free, even with soft-clipping enabled?
Please show your work, as your memory is unreliable.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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- Banned
- 410 posts since 5 Feb, 2012
When you step in a pile of dog do do, that's something that tends to stick in one's memory. Same thing here. I can't tell you exactly why the early Arturia plugins sounded so bad (other than having cold, sterile oscillators and weak, shrill filters.) Nevertheless, I have owned enough high quality analog gear to compare them to. Despite the bullshit TAE claims, the early Arturia instruments were totally lacking by comparison to my analog synths.jamcat wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:39 am Well you've already been demonstrably wrong on every claim you've made so far, and have admitted to a failing memory.
So did you do any tests and take any measurements that revealed that Arturia's oscillators were not free-running, did not reproduce instability, and were distortion-free, even with soft-clipping enabled?
Please show your work, as your memory is unreliable.
You're an idiot by the way. Unlike a lot of dweebs on KVR I don't look at oscilloscopes AND then document my findings! (God, that makes me laugh.) I just listen with my ears that have been trained by decades of listening to good-sounding instruments as well as crappy sounding instruments. I don't dwell on the crap.
Go away fanboy. You're totally lacking in critical reasoning skills and are not equipped to engage me in conversation. As Dieter says, "I grow tired of this discussion."
Matrix-1000, MicroWave with Access programmer, MicroWave II, MKS-50 with MidiClub programmer, MKS-70, MKS-80 with Kiwi Patch Editor, Nord 2 Rack, Nord 3 Rack, Prophet REV2 module, Pulse 2, Shruthi, Virus TI
- KVRAF
- 5512 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
Gadget Fiend wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:58 am I can't tell you exactly why the early Arturia plugins sounded so bad
No, you actually did tell us exactly why Arturia’s plugins sounded so bad: because TAE was a scam and didn’t do what it claimed—namely, the oscillators were neither free-running nor unstable.
Why are you backing away from your central tenet now?
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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- Banned
- 410 posts since 5 Feb, 2012
No if you were paying attention (which I realize is hard for someone with your cognitive impairments,) I claimed that TAE was a scam because it didn't produce true analog emulations. I couldn't even remember all the bullshit that Arturia was claiming with regards to TAE. I just knew that none of their early models sounded analog (based on my own experience with the originals).
Oh btw, I played in a "Synth Pop" band in high school with a wealthy friend. He had a Jupiter 8, CS-80, Prophet 5, and a Minimoog. As a middle class kid, I had a Juno 60, MonoPoly, and and an S-1000 sampler. The point is that I am familiar with the sound of a Jupiter 8, CS-80, Prophet 5, and Minimoog which were some of the earlier Arturia emulations.
Matrix-1000, MicroWave with Access programmer, MicroWave II, MKS-50 with MidiClub programmer, MKS-70, MKS-80 with Kiwi Patch Editor, Nord 2 Rack, Nord 3 Rack, Prophet REV2 module, Pulse 2, Shruthi, Virus TI
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- KVRAF
- 15517 posts since 13 Oct, 2009
I don't really want to read this thread, but this is true enough right here. When asked about some aspects of it they asserted that their modeling was "beyond ZDF and had been for some time." Well, ok, but they have also sounded like crap for some time as well. The new stuff is better, but I still much prefer Uhe stuff and some Reaktor stuff.Gadget Fiend wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:57 am Moreover, their filter models were weak and shrill (when the resonance was turned up) and completely inauthentic.
My favorite models today are their digital recreations. I'm still on 6 though, I may not update again TBH. I'm not interested in 7 or 8 so if they don't have something over the top like the CMI or the Synclavier in 9, I'll probably just stop paying attention at all.
- KVRAF
- 5512 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
So despite TAE doing exactly what Arturia said it did, you claim it is a scam because of how its name made you feel.Gadget Fiend wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:30 am I claimed that TAE was a scam because it didn't produce true analog emulations. I couldn't even remember all the bullshit that Arturia was claiming with regards to TAE.
This sounds like that weakness you were talking about.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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- KVRist
- 466 posts since 19 Oct, 2012
Can you please let him win his argument, so that he can shut up and we can go back to talking about the new instruments and not the ones from 15 years ago?jamcat wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:29 amSo despite TAE doing exactly what Arturia said it did, you claim it is a scam because of how its name made you feel.Gadget Fiend wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:30 am I claimed that TAE was a scam because it didn't produce true analog emulations. I couldn't even remember all the bullshit that Arturia was claiming with regards to TAE.
This sounds like that weakness you were talking about.
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- KVRAF
- 5451 posts since 25 Jan, 2007
Good ol KVR strikes again! The endless bickering and hurling abuse stays, but my comments on it appear to have been deleted by a moderator (who hasn't replied to my PM). Others too, I think.
That's the spirit moderator chaps, keep stoking the animosity.
That's the spirit moderator chaps, keep stoking the animosity.
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2023 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 13
Macbook Air M2 OSX 10.15
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2023 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 13
Macbook Air M2 OSX 10.15
- KVRist
- 492 posts since 27 Apr, 2013 from Denmark
I am just hoping they'll do Timbre Wolf at some point
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- Banned
- 410 posts since 5 Feb, 2012
LOL
Matrix-1000, MicroWave with Access programmer, MicroWave II, MKS-50 with MidiClub programmer, MKS-70, MKS-80 with Kiwi Patch Editor, Nord 2 Rack, Nord 3 Rack, Prophet REV2 module, Pulse 2, Shruthi, Virus TI
- KVRAF
- 5512 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
I'm not preventing him from winning his argument. His argument is.SirKen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:05 pmCan you please let him win his argument, so that he can shut up and we can go back to talking about the new instruments and not the ones from 15 years ago?jamcat wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:29 amSo despite TAE doing exactly what Arturia said it did, you claim it is a scam because of how its name made you feel.Gadget Fiend wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:30 am I claimed that TAE was a scam because it didn't produce true analog emulations. I couldn't even remember all the bullshit that Arturia was claiming with regards to TAE.
This sounds like that weakness you were talking about.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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- KVRist
- 188 posts since 14 Nov, 2020
Can anyone recommend an alternative forum to KVR which is better moderated where we can discuss synths amongst fellow grown ups rather than have to put up with this childish bickering?noiseboyuk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:54 pm Good ol KVR strikes again! The endless bickering and hurling abuse stays, but my comments on it appear to have been deleted by a moderator (who hasn't replied to my PM). Others too, I think.
That's the spirit moderator chaps, keep stoking the animosity.